Boat Waxing for People Not Looking Forward to It.

[Christian Williams]

Waxing my boat 10 years ago cost $350 and now it costs $1000. "Cost of material has gone up". Uh huh.

I am without motivation for the Maine Sail 692-step compounding and waxing process, and get tired just reading about it.

I'm considering this Shurhold machine and system, $300+ for the gear. Opinions?

 

[Bolo]

Does it come with the cool sunglasses that they're both wearing?

 

[Pete the Cat]

I have not used polymer products on boats or cars yet, but they are becoming accepted and used on cars. I think these guys are taking that car detailing process and putting it into yachts and packaging like the Griot Garage car guy did and made millions. I am not sure if gelcoat and clear coats have the same characteristic chemical makeups and if this will work. I would probably wait a bit myself to see how this evolves. I am not a pioneer of processes. A chickenshit actually.
As far as what these guys are selling, I recognize the dual action polisher as something you can get from Harbor Freight for $70--I have one (and also a more expensive Porter Cable model and a professional Makita polisher. I have been working on boats for 30+ years and I like the smaller dual action (DA) units by Porter Cable and Harbor Freight over the heavy Makita. I used to use 3M wool buffing pads on a Makita and multiple grades of polish before the final waxes, but I have evolved to using foam pads (available at Harbor Frieght but the 3M are much better) much like the one he showed (which appears to be wax pad--the polish pads are different--3M now makes them as well). I hire talented folks for prep work now. I can slap on the wax and keep up with it once the base work is done. My guess is that there is nothing stunningly different about their polymer from the car care type--they do not represent themselves as chemists.

These guys are skipping over the polishing process that you do not like (Who does?) and that is convenient but you have to wonder.. I am going to guess that you could slap on some wax or polymer and your boat will look instantly better for a short period, but the UV damage to gelcoat is really deep (Awlgrip is another story) and I wonder about polymer coating on gelcoat vs clearcoat -- this is a chemical bonding process and I am not sure how similar they are. I paid a guy $1600 to polish my recently purchased and neglected Ericson 32-200--this was polishing everything and I thought it was fair. He spent 12 -8 hour days, mostly with progressively fine polishing and waxing. I am getting too old for this. But I have kept it up easily with slapping on coats of Fleetwax in 2 hour sessions covering maybe a quarter of the boat at a time a year later. The boat looks new. My view is the real work is prep. Waxing is nothing. I guess the question is whether the prep is necessary. I might be wrong, but I am an experienced varnish guy and I know that most folks skip the proper prep and pay for it with endless rework or awful looking results after a year or two. Well prepped and applied varnish will last a long time. Slapped on varnish looks like hell shortly. They sell a lot of varnish substitutes that look good--for a short period.

The first versions of these polymer coats on cars were a mess: peeling and flaking and no easy way to remove them--but I think that has been resolved because all the major car care companies are offering polymers now--I think they have improved them. But I have not seen a polymer product offered by 3M yet--and they are the go to for professional detailers and many upscale boat yards, like the one I work in seasonally. So I wonder. I am not putting polymers on my car just yet.

Lots of text here for not much substance. But that is my experience. Mainesail is a bit overboard on most everything imho (I really feel sorry for his recent situation) but I give him credit for being directionally correct on most issues. My point is, prep matters, and it is hard work with gel coat because it is porous stuff to polish and fill.

 

[Christian Williams]

So--if you wax the boat, say, once a year--or maybe every eight months--does it require compounding every time?

I paid $1200 in May 2021 for such a job, and there appears to be limited oxidation as of now. At least to my eye.

I'm not personally so concerned about shine as preserving the gelcoat, which on my '84 boat is still is good shape.

 

[Stuphoto]

I kinda think you should sail her up to the PNW Rendezvous in July, and do the Tom Sawyer thing convincing everyone else to wax your boat

 

[peaman]

And then make a video of the whole episode!

"How to wax a boat. The EASY way."

 

[Christian Williams]

the cool sunglasses

Oh and yeah, Bob, I assumed he was somebody's grandson-- in the Matrix.

(Reference is to the unnecessarily young yacht captain in the Surehold sales video.)

 

[Pete the Cat]

No you should not have to compound every time you wax if it was done recently. There are multiple abrasive levels of compounds (like sandpaper) for fiberglass and the trick is to use the least abrasive that gets the job done. Determining what you need is the value of experience in polishing gelcoat ( this discussion has nothing to do with paint). In my Ericson, no one had done much but slapped wax on it to sell it, so it needed to start out with quite aggressive 3M compound and then successively finer polishing compounds to get all the oxidation, scratches and old wax off for a base. The 3M finishing polish actually is done when you can see your reflection clearly in the gelcoat. I recall it is called Finesse. This is before wax. It takes out scratches you cannot see and old wax that can yellow from UV. I would test that and see what it does. You should not need a machine to work fine polish if it has been recently done but it can be worked with a polisher with clean foam pads to save your arms. Wear a mask with machine polishing compounds as they contain silica in almost invisible particles.
I agree that if you paid $1200 the guy and he is complaining about the price of the products (did he tell you what products he used?) you probably do not need another $1200 job right now. I agree with being cautious about over compounding a recently compounded hull--gelcoat is soft and thick but has limits. On the other hand, depending on how scratched the surface is from use and salt it probably should be cleaned at least with a very light polish before a wax--not a rubbing compound or aggressive compound but a very light polish. Some of the one step polish/waxes have a light polish built in to the wax and might not be too aggressive and might serve your purpose for a base. I have been using Starbrite One-Step for touch up (the Maine yard I work in uses this for annual Spring waxing requests), but use Colinite Fleetwax for final as it seems to last the longest of the waxes I have used. Easy to put on by hand. I think Mainesail is basically directionally correct in his process, just a bit OCD a usual--I hope he is able to come back, his channel is very well done--I occasionally saw his CS 36 in coves in Maine and it was, as you would expect, a maintenance showpiece.

 

[Bolo]

the cool sunglasses

Oh and yeah, Bob, I assumed he was somebody's grandson-- in the Matrix.

(Reference is to the unnecessarily young yacht captain in the Surehold sales video.)

IMO, the role played by Barry, president of the the company, was unnecessary in the video. But the part of the ”Demo Captian“ (Is he only a captain for the video?) played by Sam was truly inspiring and informative especially with his ”homage” look, with the sun glasses and hair cut, of Tom Hanks from the movie Top Gun.

As for waxing, which is what I should be really writing about, I get the hull compounded and wax by the yard every other year when the boat is pulled out for hull maintenance. The cockpit, cabin top, etc. I do myself with whatever boat wax and compound (when necessary) I have on hand or what I find in my local West Marine store. It all does the job, looks shiny and isn’t oxidized. I try and keep the process to a minimum cause I like sailing better then rubbing down the fiberglass till I see myself in it.

 

[gabriel]

So--if you wax the boat, say, once a year--or maybe every eight months--does it require compounding every time?

I paid $1200 in May 2021 for such a job, and there appears to be limited oxidation as of now. At least to my eye.

I'm not personally so concerned about shine as preserving the gelcoat, which on my '84 boat is still is good shape.

Wax as much as possible and only compound to restore damaged finish. Personally, I’m suspicious of old boats are too shiny

one easy way to wax everything over time is to use liquid wax to clean everything. Drop of oil on deck? Clean it off with wax.

 

[Prairie Schooner]

. . . so it needed to start out with quite aggressive 3M compound and then successively finer polishing compounds to get all the oxidation, scratches and old wax off for a base. The 3M finishing polish actually is done when you can see your reflection clearly in the gelcoat. I recall it is called Finesse. This is before wax. It takes out scratches you cannot see and old wax that can yellow from UV. . . .

I think I have a good grasp on what compound is, and wax. I'm still fuzzy on what 'polish' is. I had some training as a silversmith and in that context polishing is all just successively finer grades of abrasive, with some sort of binder. In this context, does polish work by physics, chemistry, or ??

 

[Loren Beach]

When considering metal, it is physics, IMO. When I was buffing out all of the SS parts of our boat last year, some had never had a real surface polish done, being a "mill finish" from the factory. I had to "grind" down the surface, starting with 800 grit, and then1500. I recall using some 3000 for the last grind. Then I would use the buffing wheel and the waxy polishing stick. That brings it to a mirror finish.
Besides looks, a mirror surface is more corrosion resistant, also.
Fine buffing materials were used on the final surface finish of the clear Awlgrip on our whole boat, but not by me.... any mistake would be too expensive to allow an amateur to practice on it. Like the movie detective, I know my limitations.

 

[Prairie Schooner]

I think I have a good grasp on what compound is, and wax. I'm still fuzzy on what 'polish' is. I had some training as a silversmith and in that context polishing is all just successively finer grades of abrasive, with some sort of binder. In this context, does polish work by physics, chemistry, or ??

Thanks Loren. I'm especially interested in compound, polish, wax on gelcoat.
I think the PO used some of the polymer Ray referenced, but without removing all crud and oxidation. We've experimented with FSR (hand, small powered scrubber), On/Off (hand, green scotchbright), 3M heavy (hand, random orbital sander), 3M light/polish (hand, ros), 1000 grit wet/dry (hand). Still very stubborn. Little shards of what I suspect is old hardened polymer came off w the 1000 g w/d. Still curious 3M means by 'polish' compared to compound.

 

[Stuphoto]

I don't know about boat wax, however an easy way to remove most car waxes is washing it with water and a little dish soap.
Plus most car waxes do contain fine abrasives.

I used to use car wax on my motorcycles rather than soap and water to clean off heavy insect splatter, and usually had the cleanest sport bike around.
It's pretty much all those waterless car washes were in the 90's

 

[Martin King]

played by Sam was truly inspiring and informative especially with his ”homage” look, with the sun glasses and hair cut, of Tom Hanks from the movie Top Gun.

Wait, Tom Hanks was Maverick? Since when?

These polymer waxes are nothing new, perhaps they have improved them a little but I wouldn't get sucked in. Whatever your choice of wax, you still have to rub out the gelcoat, that's where the real work is and they left that step out of the video. For that, I like the 3m line of products such as Finesse It II on a foam pad being driven by an orbital such as the Porter Cable. I don't think you do too much damage with that set up. Have to be careful though because if too much gelcoat is removed, you are looking at a new paint job.

 

[Jerry VB]

Wait, Tom Hanks was Maverick?

Hanks of rope, going on a Cruise; boating is involved either way. <shrug>

 

[David Grimm]

I paid $750 last season for a top wax. There really is no shine before or after. It just looks cleaner and the water beads off. The beginning of every season I wash the hull, paint with ablative, and wax the painted above water line with Maguires Flagship. I use a HF 6 inch orbital on speed 3. I apply with the big wooly pad and remove with the yellow foam. Carefully only a 2 foot by 3 foot seaction at a time with little to no dry time for the applied wax. Takes a good part of the day but comes out amazing. Gets all that soot from the engine off the stern too.

 

[Bolo]

Wait, Tom Hanks was Maverick? Since when?

These polymer waxes are nothing new, perhaps they have improved them a little but I wouldn't get sucked in. Whatever your choice of wax, you still have to rub out the gelcoat, that's where the real work is and they left that step out of the video. For that, I like the 3m line of products such as Finesse It II on a foam pad being driven by an orbital such as the Porter Cable. I don't think you do too much damage with that set up. Have to be careful though because if too much gelcoat is removed, you are looking at a new paint job.

Ahh..ya got me! Not Hanks….Cruise. It was probably my dyslexia kicking in.

 

[Geoff W.]

How many of yall do regular buff/wax in the water? I'm probably coming up on a haulout... would love to skip this year and do next year, but the buff/wax....and some gelcoat repair....should probably be done this season.

 

[Christian Williams]

Around here the boats are in the water all year, and only come out for bottom paint. So all the waxing is done in the slip.

Although working topsides with a heavy buffer over water looks awkward, I was quoted the same price for the job done on the hard. "We have to rig a scaffold so it's actually not easier."

As for regularity, once a year is probably a high frequency--or less. Much less, given the expense.