Bimini vs. main sheet

[kapnkd]

This sounds very interesting. Do you have photos?

thanks
jcool

OK! ...Just created a couple of images from the old brochure photo of the stern and inserted a regular bimini and what mine looked like for the helmsman. Notice how it attaches to the regular bimini via Velcro and is in sections to allow the traveler to be stationed in various positions and still keep the helmsman's shade up for him.
There is a bar that runs horizontal on the outside of the backstay and is held up using the toping lift cable/clip. The ends of the rod are tied to the forward end of the stern pulpit plus the rear shade panel is held down with ties as well (all are illustrated in red for ease of viewing.)

Hope this helps.
-kerry

 

[kapnkd]

What year is your 32? I just picked up a '73 32 and am having trouble designing my future Bimini as well. I'm thinking about raising the boom height while I'm at it, because a new mainsail has to happen soon.

Ahoy "C Breeze",

FYI ...I just sent these images to "C_Cool" regarding what I did on our E32 to resolve shade issues for the helmsman. Currently my bimini is off of the boat and I don't have any old photos. I used the old photo from the original brochure and recreated a bimini in one photo and in the other what was done for the helmsman.
Note there is a horizontal bar that attaches to the backside of the backstay and is held up via the topping lift cable (which is not in use when sailing). There are lines on each end of the rod (shown in red/orange) that tie to the forward ends of the stern pulpit. Also the back flap is held down with ties across the stern pulpit as well.

The forward section is attached to the back of the bimini on top via Velcro and was split into four sections to allow for the various positions needed for the traveler and lines to pass across. For all the years we lived in Florida - it worked GREAT didn't cost all that much and was easy to put up or take down as needed.

Hope this is of help??
-kerry

 

[Alan Gomes]

Umbrella on an E26-2

My E26-2 has neither a bimini nor a dodger. Like Christian, I'm not wild about either for a few different reasons, even apart from the cost issue (which is considerable). Also, fixing a bimini on my particular boat would be a challenge. At the same time, I do frequent single handed trips over to Catalina and would really like to get some kind of shade during the hours I spend in the sun. Since I, like Christian, am sufficiently secure in my masculinity, I began to noodle on the idea of whether an umbrella might work as an adequate and inexpensive solution.

My boat is tiller steered, which means that my normal position is at the companionway bulkhead. Even when I'm motoring over to the Island under autopilot, I sit with my back against the bulkhead. So unlike with Christian's set up, which he affixed at his steering pedestal, I needed mine located right at the companionway.

What I wanted was something that was: (1) tall enough so it would not impeded visibility and not interfere too greatly with moving from the cockpit to the foredeck. (2) short enough so that it would clear the underside of the boom, so that it could be used under sail. (3) strong enough so that it could stand up to at least a moderate amount of air without collapsing or turning inside out. (4) simple enough so that it could be deployed or taken down quickly and easily.

I decided to give the Magma Boat Umbrella a try. http://www.westmarine.com/buy/magma--cockpit-umbrella-pacific-blue--15038581 This baby seems to have all of the attributes I was after. So far I've only tried it at the dock (in yesterday's high winds, no less), but I'm reasonably confident it will work just fine under way.

Some things I like about this umbrella: (1) It seems to be well made. (2) It is designed specifically not to turn itself inside out when wind catches it from the underside. (3) It easily breaks down into a small package with its own carrying case. (4) The umbrella is mounted on a fiberglass pole so it has a bit of flex, which I think is a good thing. (5) It has 4 little straps if a person wanted to run additional stabilizing lines. I'm not sure why I would need to do this, but I could easily make some up with shock cord and snap hooks if I wanted to. (6) It's much cheaper than a bimini (i.e., $69 vs. the $1600 I was quoted by one of our top canvas shops--which eventually concluded that a bimini probably would not work well on my boat anyway).

The umbrella comes with a rail mount, which was not of use in my case. Attaching it to any of my stanchions would not put it anywhere near the position I needed. So what I did was cannibalize the plastic block by removing it from the rail mount and then screwed it into my bridge deck, about two inches above the cockpit sole. This is the perfect height, allowing the tip of the umbrella to clear the boom (i.e., with the main up) by a few inches.

An added bonus of putting it in this location is that the umbrella overhangs slightly the sliding hatch when the hatch is pulled all the way aft. What this means is that when we get rain I should be able to leave the companionway hatch boards out without getting rain inside the cabin. We'll see how that works, especially if El Nino delivers on the much-needed wet stuff.

Included are some pictures. I'll report back with how well it works under sail once I've had chance to test that out.

 

[Christian Williams]

Note there is a horizontal bar that attaches to the backside of the backstay and is held up via the topping lift cable (which is not in use when sailing).

In Kerry's plan I don't see why you couldn't put a cleat on the backstay, rather than using the topping lift. That's how I secure the cockpit awning.

No topping lift while sailing is undesirable, since reefing is impossible and if you release the halyard the boom falls on your headbone.

 

[Shelman]

Nice addition Alan. Useful, simple, and versatile. I absolutely love my dodger but in the years to come and with my dreams of lower latitudes I will want more shade and protection on sunny days than my dodger can offer. This just might be the right balance of shade and simplicity.

 

[Alan Gomes]

Nice addition Alan. Useful, simple, and versatile. I absolutely love my dodger but in the years to come and with my dreams of lower latitudes I will want more shade and protection on sunny days than my dodger can offer. This just might be the right balance of shade and simplicity.

Thanks, Randy. I can already declare it a success in the simplicity category. It remains to be seen how effective it is, but I'm hopeful. I thought about trying to come up with some kind of articulating mount but decided this may do the job. I'll report back after I've given it some thorough testing.

 

[Macgyro]

Tight little bimini

It might be hard to tell from the tiny photo, but the way my boat was set up by the P.O. allowed the bimini to be up while sailing. It extended out to the traveler, but not beyond it. Of course, on our maiden voyage the helmsman was continuously pelted by rain and then sleet because there is no protection at the wheel. The set up is difficult to get around to go to the bow, and only has enough room to sit under, but provides excellent protection if one were to rig the tiller handle.

I've got a plan to add a second (homemade) bimini to the aft rail that will sit much higher, and leave a gap for the traveller and mainsheet, but progress is slow and I haven't solved the problem of shading my little solar panel on the back yet.

Best of Luck! I can't wait to see photos of what you accomplish.

-Dean

 

[ignacio]

Extend the dodger

Great discussion. I've been scratching my head about this one for a few months now, and my best idea for how to add shade in the cockpit without interfering with the mainsheet under sail is to build something akin to what Dean has. The helm doesn't need the shade, but getting that sitting area covered is critical, especially if spending most of the time there steering with the tiller attached under sail.

Here's a drawing of what I'm thinking: A single stainless bow held taut aft with some straps and secured onto the deck with through-bolted fittings. The canvas would then extend from the traveler to the dodger, where it attaches to it somehow.

 

[Loren Beach]

An idea from another boat

I was surfing the ads and found these pix of a Pearson 367 from the early 80's.
Similar traveler to our boat and several of the Ericsons.
This boat has dodger, bimini, and a split connecting piece.

Loren

 

[Shelman]

Great discussion. I've been scratching my head about this one for a few months now, and my best idea for how to add shade in the cockpit without interfering with the mainsheet under sail is to build something akin to what Dean has. The helm doesn't need the shade, but getting that sitting area covered is critical, especially if spending most of the time there steering with the tiller attached under sail.

Here's a drawing of what I'm thinking: A single stainless bow held taut aft with some straps and secured onto the deck with through-bolted fittings. The canvas would then extend from the traveler to the dodger, where it attaches to it somehow.

I have looked at a really similar Dodger extension but on my little boat I would only extend the dodger about 16" All I would need is one hoop of the 1" tubing with a few braces going forward to the existing dodger, then I could still stand at the tiller and see over the dodger for docking and yet I could easily scoot forward enough to be totally protected as well. the only problem is I can't find the stainless tubing with the continuous hand hold welded onto the back like my dodger currently has on it. i just couldn't imagine giving that up. but If I can a fabricator who could weld it up than I could easily add the little extension and I could even make it removable if I wanted to.

 

[kapnkd]

Note there is a horizontal bar that attaches to the backside of the backstay and is held up via the topping lift cable (which is not in use when sailing).

In Kerry's plan I don't see why you couldn't put a cleat on the backstay, rather than using the topping lift. That's how I secure the cockpit awning.

No topping lift while sailing is undesirable, since reefing is impossible and if you release the halyard the boom falls on your headbone.

...Actually, I never really had any problems with reefing as as the weather piped up, the back shade was the first thing to come down, followed by the bimini top and thus leaving the topping lift free again to use for reefing purposes.
-kerry

 

[kapnkd]

My E26-2 has neither a bimini nor a dodger. Like Christian, I'm not wild about either for a few different reasons, even apart from the cost issue (which is considerable). Also, fixing a bimini on my particular boat would be a challenge. At the same time, I do frequent single handed trips over to Catalina and would really like to get some kind of shade during the hours I spend in the sun. Since I, like Christian, am sufficiently secure in my masculinity, I began to noodle on the idea of whether an umbrella might work as an adequate and inexpensive solution.

My boat is tiller steered, which means that my normal position is at the companionway bulkhead. Even when I'm motoring over to the Island under autopilot, I sit with my back against the bulkhead. So unlike with Christian's set up, which he affixed at his steering pedestal, I needed mine located right at the companionway.

What I wanted was something that was: (1) tall enough so it would not impeded visibility and not interfere too greatly with moving from the cockpit to the foredeck. (2) short enough so that it would clear the underside of the boom, so that it could be used under sail. (3) strong enough so that it could stand up to at least a moderate amount of air without collapsing or turning inside out. (4) simple enough so that it could be deployed or taken down quickly and easily.

I decided to give the Magma Boat Umbrella a try. http://www.westmarine.com/buy/magma--cockpit-umbrella-pacific-blue--15038581 This baby seems to have all of the attributes I was after. So far I've only tried it at the dock (in yesterday's high winds, no less), but I'm reasonably confident it will work just fine under way.

Some things I like about this umbrella: (1) It seems to be well made. (2) It is designed specifically not to turn itself inside out when wind catches it from the underside. (3) It easily breaks down into a small package with its own carrying case. (4) The umbrella is mounted on a fiberglass pole so it has a bit of flex, which I think is a good thing. (5) It has 4 little straps if a person wanted to run additional stabilizing lines. I'm not sure why I would need to do this, but I could easily make some up with shock cord and snap hooks if I wanted to. (6) It's much cheaper than a bimini (i.e., $69 vs. the $1600 I was quoted by one of our top canvas shops--which eventually concluded that a bimini probably would not work well on my boat anyway).

The umbrella comes with a rail mount, which was not of use in my case. Attaching it to any of my stanchions would not put it anywhere near the position I needed. So what I did was cannibalize the plastic block by removing it from the rail mount and then screwed it into my bridge deck, about two inches above the cockpit sole. This is the perfect height, allowing the tip of the umbrella to clear the boom (i.e., with the main up) by a few inches.

An added bonus of putting it in this location is that the umbrella overhangs slightly the sliding hatch when the hatch is pulled all the way aft. What this means is that when we get rain I should be able to leave the companionway hatch boards out without getting rain inside the cabin. We'll see how that works, especially if El Nino delivers on the much-needed wet stuff.

Included are some pictures. I'll report back with how well it works under sail once I've had chance to test that out.

Hello Alan,

Sorry for the delay in a response but I've been away from the computer working on our E-32 while we still have a bit more warm weather here in Michigan. (THE Never Ending Project!)

Given you're not doing extended offshore cruising other than Catalina which is about 26 miles from the mainland (??) - this could be a nice and inexpensive alternative for you with prudent usage.

You MUST keep in mind that should any fast approaching bad weather come up on you, it is NOT the best of options and helps "Murphy" always prove his point (IF - you are like me). Ease of setup and above all take down is a critical factor for you to consider.

I'm not familiar with the California Coastal Cruising being a Bahamas and Great Lakes Cruiser - but from my experiences, dodgers and bimini tops are much more suited to the thoughts of being caught by surprise. The umbrella you posted is really neat! One of my local sailing friends with a Tartan 30 has one and loves it. ...BUT - he uses it primarily at dockside OR on anchorage. I'll check with him to see if he's used it under sail and if so, how it works out for him.

Fair Winds!
-kerry

 

[Alan Gomes]

Hello Alan,

Sorry for the delay in a response but I've been away from the computer working on our E-32 while we still have a bit more warm weather here in Michigan. (THE Never Ending Project!)

Given you're not doing extended offshore cruising other than Catalina which is about 26 miles from the mainland (??) - this could be a nice and inexpensive alternative for you with prudent usage.

You MUST keep in mind that should any fast approaching bad weather come up on you, it is NOT the best of options and helps "Murphy" always prove his point (IF - you are like me). Ease of setup and above all take down is a critical factor for you to consider.

I'm not familiar with the California Coastal Cruising being a Bahamas and Great Lakes Cruiser - but from my experiences, dodgers and bimini tops are much more suited to the thoughts of being caught by surprise. The umbrella you posted is really neat! One of my local sailing friends with a Tartan 30 has one and loves it. ...BUT - he uses it primarily at dockside OR on anchorage. I'll check with him to see if he's used it under sail and if so, how it works out for him.

Fair Winds!
-kerry

Hi, Kerry. And thanks for your thoughts and concerns. I appreciate them.

My plan is to use this mostly at the dock and at anchor, but also underway in settled and moderate weather. I would not want it up under way when the wind piped up too much. In any case, the beauty of this installation is that I can pluck it out of its mount and toss it below in 15 seconds if I need to. If the weather kicked up enough to where I needed to tuck in a reef, I'd stow the umbrella first, so it wouldn't be in my way for that operation (e.g., so the boom doesn't drop on it), and just leave it below. So no, I don't see this as providing all the functionality of a dodger or a bimini. But heck, it's $69 and it will give me shade under a lot of conditions.

 

[kapnkd]

Hi, Kerry. And thanks for your thoughts and concerns. I appreciate them.

My plan is to use this mostly at the dock and at anchor, but also underway in settled and moderate weather. I would not want it up under way when the wind piped up too much. In any case, the beauty of this installation is that I can pluck it out of its mount and toss it below in 15 seconds if I need to. If the weather kicked up enough to where I needed to tuck in a reef, I'd stow the umbrella first, so it wouldn't be in my way for that operation (e.g., so the boom doesn't drop on it), and just leave it below. So no, I don't see this as providing all the functionality of a dodger or a bimini. But heck, it's $69 and it will give me shade under a lot of conditions.

Hi Alan,

Given what you say, ....Sounds like a PLAN! ...From what you describe, it should work out well - and best of all - for a fraction of the price for a bimini or dodger!

Shade is most important to have out on the water! I've learned this the hard way from many years of cruising in the lower latitudes in the Bahamas. Also consider (IF you don't already have it) some sort of canvas awning with tie downs to your life lines that sits over the boom while at anchor and even has sides to it. It can be tilted to block the sun as it moves across the sky. Mine used to go from the mast all the way to the back stay and was like a cockpit AC during the hot summer sun. (It can be another cheaper but even more effective alternative than a bimini!!)

 

[Alan Gomes]

Hi Alan,

Given what you say, ....Sounds like a PLAN! ...From what you describe, it should work out well - and best of all - for a fraction of the price for a bimini or dodger!

Shade is most important to have out on the water! I've learned this the hard way from many years of cruising in the lower latitudes in the Bahamas. Also consider (IF you don't already have it) some sort of canvas awning with tie downs to your life lines that sits over the boom while at anchor and even has sides to it. It can be tilted to block the sun as it moves across the sky. Mine used to go from the mast all the way to the back stay and was like a cockpit AC during the hot summer sun. (It can be another cheaper but even more effective alternative than a bimini!!)

Agreed. I already have a boom tent arrangement for when I'm at at the dock or on a mooring. It's a bit of a pain to set up and remove, though it is reasonably effective. Doesn't work for me at anchor, though, in those cases when I use my boom to deploy a flopper stopper. (I need the boom centered in order to mount the boom tent.) It's fine when on a mooring at Catalina, though, since I don't put out a flopper stopper then.

Anyway, I know the umbrella ain't no dodger or bimini and won't be perfect in all situations. But I think it may work well enough a good deal of the time. I figure I have little to lose trying it out. At $69 and about half an hour to install I think it's worth the experiment--all in the interest of science!

 

[kapnkd]

Agreed. I already have a boom tent arrangement for when I'm at at the dock or on a mooring. It's a bit of a pain to set up and remove, though it is reasonably effective. Doesn't work for me at anchor, though, in those cases when I use my boom to deploy a flopper stopper. (I need the boom centered in order to mount the boom tent.) It's fine when on a mooring at Catalina, though, since I don't put out a flopper stopper then.

Anyway, I know the umbrella ain't no dodger or bimini and won't be perfect in all situations. But I think it may work well enough a good deal of the time. I figure I have little to use trying it out. At $69 and about half an hour to install I think it's worth the experiment--all in the interest of science!

Sounds like you have it under control. Yes, my boom tent is a bear/pain to set up as well but the shade in the lower latitudes makes it worth while. Again, a careful eye on the weather is needed for sure!

I think, given your description of usage, you will do fine and if it doesn't you won't have lost a whole lot of money but can even still use it for dockside.

Fair Winds!
-kerry

 

[Loren Beach]

Possible alternative

Speaking of bimini's and the significant cost if you want full shelter from wind or rain, there is a company in the UK with a cockpit shelter that might suffice - albeit only for when you are docked or at anchor.
The video makes it look like an average person might be able to put it together, albeit taking longer than their demo.

http://www.habitent.com

After looking at the cost plus shipping, I figure a very "ball park" (!?) estimate might be, with exchange rate, of about $800.US delivered.

Last time I got a preliminary estimate of a bimini plus enclosure for our boat it was around 6K....
Oooh My.

Loren

 

[supersailor]

Loren,

Interesting for a possible winter cover. Wouldn't want to sail with it. Too much a purist. The boats I have sailed on with a full cover feel like I'm driving around in a Greyhound Bus. I'd rather put on long johns. At least I feel that I'm in a sailboat.

 

[kapnkd]

Speaking of bimini's and the significant cost if you want full shelter from wind or rain, there is a company in the UK with a cockpit shelter that might suffice - albeit only for when you are docked or at anchor.
The video makes it look like an average person might be able to put it together, albeit taking longer than their demo.

http://www.habitent.com

After looking at the cost plus shipping, I figure a very "ball park" (!?) estimate might be, with exchange rate, of about $800.US delivered.

Last time I got a preliminary estimate of a bimini plus enclosure for our boat it was around 6K....
Oooh My.

Loren

Hi Loren,

Great information, thank you!

...Yes, I calculated it this morning at the current exchange rate and it came in around $700.
I wouldn't want to sail with it up either - just for reasons of restricted movement and vision around my boat while underway. At anchorage on a rainy day, it would/could make things a lot dryer and cozy in the cockpit for sure though.

I'm going to forward their website on to a couple more Ericson owners at my club who have 38's. Again, thanks for the great tip!
-kerry

 

[Steve A]

Dodger extension

Here's a 32 I saw on yacht world last year that has an extension on the dodger to shade forward cockpit