Backstay Adjusters

[Steve Murray]

Hello to all,

I would appreciate comments, advice, opinions on the pros and cons of manual vs. hydraulic backstay adjusters. This is our first year with our 35 III and we are just beginning to realize what a wonder sailing boat it is. We race for fun and because it forces one to do things one wouldn't normally do while cruising. Last Saturday, we took first in a distance race (non-spinnaker division) in 18-22 apparent and I think we could have beaten a few of the spinnaker flyers with less headstay sag.

I'm ready to buy an adjuster but nobody around here has a mechanical one. Is there something wrong with them?

Steve Murray
E 35 III 222
Charlottetown PEI

 

[Glyn Judson]

Baskstay adjusters.

Steve, When all else fails, go to see what Harken offers: http://mauriprosailing.com/Harken/Harken-Trimming-Systems/Backstay-Adjuster.htm As you can see, they have several different setups from which to select.

Say, my friend Greg Ross is in Charlottetown Marina too with his Ericson 31. Look for his boat at the farthest end of the docks, closest to the entrance. His green green hulled cutter is the second slip in with a Bayfield being the the first in a slip. To see what his boat looks like please visit our web site at http://www.Eircson31.com, go to the photos section and click on hull #63, that's Greg's boat. My wife, my guide dog Frank and I visited them there this past August, what a lovely marina you have!! Look for him and say hi for me, he's a super guy. Glyn Judson, E31 hull #55, Marina del Rey, CA

 

[treilley]

Hi Steve, I have found that the mecanical adjusters work better on small boats where there is less force involved. The Hydrauic adjusters also are more tidy a solution. The amount of line you would need going through the bocks would be substantial. Imagine what you do with all of that when you tighten it. I have a Navtec hydraulic setup where I just replaced the cylinder. It has a remote pump located in the cockpit. I also race and it it very usefull in adding HS sag or flattening the sails in higher wind.

 

[Steve Murray]

Thanks for the replies.

Glyn, I'm sorry I didn't get over to say hello. I only got to know Greg this summer as he was refinishing his mast. He mentioned that you were coming to Charlottetown. It's funny but I knew of his honeymoon escapades through this forum well before I actually met him. My boat is only about 3 slips toward the shore from his - stuck in among the J's.

I should have been clearer about the adjuster. I have a single backstay and have been looking at the Harken and Wichard rachetting adjusters. They seem a little simpler to install and maintain. While we do race occasionally, speed of adjustment isn't really an issue.

Tim, did you have any issues with the stern rail during installation? It may be related to mast rake (or lack of it), but my backstay is within half an inch of the stern rail. I was going to splice in the adjuster just above the rail. From my cardboard mock up, I should be able to drive without wearing a helmet.

Steve Murray
E 35 III 222
Charlottetown, PEI

 

[sleather]

I'll let the "big boys" talk you through the specifics, but I have a $.02 comment. I have a mechanical "split stay" rig(Harken#4 w/ a dbl. sheave "A" block, prevents "hard point") on my E23 and the thing I like about it is the "redundancy" of the design. The adjuster is independent of the rig, so any failure of the block & tackle or even one leg of the "split" will not result in a BAD day! Is yours "split" now?

 

[Loren Beach]

Seek & Ye shall Find (hopefully)

http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/showthread.php?t=2308&highlight=sailtec&page=2
Just one of *many* related threads on this site. Start plugging in words like Navtec, Sailtec, or Back stay adjuster into the Search box above. Lots to study!
:nerd:

As others note, ALL these systems work fine, but the hydraulic ones give you max speed of tension change when mark rounding.

As to the block-and-tackle ones, once boats get over 26 feet (arbitrary limit) the number of blocks and amount of line grows quickly out of proportion to get the purchase you need. I figure that you are looking at generating over 2K # force on a backstay on an E-35, give or take.

As to dealing with a potential cylinder failure, we factored this in when we re-rigged, at the suggestion of the rigger. We now have a slightly shorter backstay and a chrome bronze turnbuckle above the SailTec hydraulic adjuster. When connecting the stay, with the cylinder relaxed and the turnbuckle just barely threaded in, with effort I can get the pin in. Then I take the turnbuckle up until tight...
Then we use the hydraulic BS adjuster. If the cylinder ever dies while we are out sailing, we can just tighten the turnbuckle up to adequately tension the headstay.
So goes the theory.


Cheers,
LB

 

[treilley]

The stern rail does not interfere with my Navtec as it is completely below the rail. If I loosen up everything(which I never need to do) the swage fitting comes close. I have had a cylinder failure(2 months ago) and it just simply loosens the BS to the extended length of the cylinder.

 

[rwthomas1]

FWIW, I have a Navtec hydraulic unit on my E38. It is an integral unit, meaning the controls are mounted to it. It clears the aft rail just barely and works great. Quick to adjust and very effective at controlling headstay sag and flattening the mainsail. Thats the way I would go. RT

 

[windjunkee]

I have a Navtec too. I was going to buy it new but I got a reconditioned used unit and saved about $450 on the purchase price. Its the smallest Navtec they make and it has worked flawless. However, we had some mounting issues. We were sold a toggle and I believe the rigger incorrectly assumed the position of the tang. We had to backstay cut to fit the adjuster with one toggle. When it was installed, the handle was facing the wrong way (as in, if the handle falls down, the helmsman gets an unpleasant surprise :eek: ) Thus, we bought a second toggle to turn it the correct way after failing to find a twisty toggle. Now the throw of the adjustor is off. We need to cut another 2-3 inches off the backstay but we haven't gotten around to it yet.
The moral of the story is, make sure you know how you want the adjustor to be positioned so that you only have to cut the backstay once.

Jim McCone
Voice of Reason E-32-2 Hull #134
Redondo Beach, CA

 

[gareth harris]

FWIW, I have what I am pretty sure in an original hydraulic backstay Ericson installed as an option on the E35. It is a small unit, the piston sits well below the rail with no clearance problems, and the pump is below the hatch. I think the red line is between 1600 lbs and 2000 lbs, if I remember correctly - the gauge has never worked since I have owned it.

It does help with headstay sag, although the mast does not bend much to effect a change in mainsail shape.

Gareth
Freyja E35 #241 1972

 

[Steve Murray]

Thanks Gareth. I've read the comments here and on the other threads discussing adjusters. Hydraulic adjusters, for all their strength and speed, seem to be a medium to high maintenance item. Practical Sailor gives a good review of the Wichard single handle rachet model. No leaks, no seals, no pumps. The depth of my pockets also has an impact.

This is our first year with the boat and, while there is nothing to really "fix", there are a number of improvements we would like to make. An A sail, a rigid vang, better electronics - it all adds up so if I can save a few hundred dollars on an adjuster which will do the job (maybe not as elegantly) that's a good thing.

Steve Murray
E35 III 222
Charlottetown, PEI

 

[rwthomas1]

Thanks Gareth. I've read the comments here and on the other threads discussing adjusters. Hydraulic adjusters, for all their strength and speed, seem to be a medium to high maintenance item. Practical Sailor gives a good review of the Wichard single handle rachet model. No leaks, no seals, no pumps.

I don't see how a hydraulic adjuster is particularly maintenance prone. Yes, I have had mine rebuilt but I don't know when it was last done. I would expect at least 5 years of service from such a unit. Its just a bottle jack in reverse..... The tip I was given is to protect the piston rod seal from UV and it will last much longer. I used a PVC plumbing end cap with a hole drilled to allow the piston rod to pass through, as a sunshield. It works very well. I periodically clean the rod and wipe it with light oil as well. Easy stuff. RT

 

[Mindscape]

Wichard Backstay adjuster

Does anyone here use the Wichard Backstay adjuster? Wondering about pros and cons if anyone has used one on an Ericson.