Atomic 4 Starting Question

[Scott Peterson]

Hello - I am a new owner of 1973 e35 and I had a couple of novice A4 questions...

My motor is a forward under-cushion install with the batteries in a permanent cradle in the adjacent compartment to port of the motor. The previous owner dealt with constant stalls and filter problems due to a rusting fuel tank. So i have temp. bypassed the fuel tank with an o/b motor tank with new in-line filters. When I squeezed the bulb to prime the line up the carb had an immediate and steady drip of fuel (obviously not optimal), but motor turned over strongly and the leaking appeared to stop as soon as it was turning. The motor would not catch at all, so I am going to start with the coil and distributor but now at last the question : the carb is squeezed right up against a compartment panel with the batteries/batt. cradle right on the other side. Has anyone had to cut away part of that division for access to the carb?

And... what is the deal with exhaust cooling water backing up into the motor with excess starter turning? I could hear exhaust water exiting the transom during turn-over and there should be an anti-siphon - so I don't get it but are there rules of thumb about that? How long to turn, waiting between, ??

Many Thanks in Advance!!
Scott

 

[Afrakes]

Access

I cut a removable access panel through the port side of the engine compartment on my former E-27 to get at the carb. What type of exhaust system do you have? A properly installed stand pipe exhaust system should not allow water to get back into the engine.

 

[Afrakes]

Gas Tank

After much frustration I replaced the steel tank on the 73' 27 with a plastic one from Moeller. No matter how many filters I had, the gunk in the gas from the steel tank would still cause the carb float needle valve to stick in the open position and flood the engine. After replacement no problems.

 

[Scott Peterson]

Thank you for reply! For my situation it's not easy to cut out on the port side due to battery arrangement (which looks stock), I was hoping someone might say the carb is removable from the top (with almost zero side clearance)..?

Your reply would explain why fuel leaked out of the carb immediately when I pressurized the fuel line - after changing filters did you need to un-stick the needle valve?
I have been looking at the Moeller tanks

Re exhaust - looks like a water jacket with probably asbestos roving wrapped around it, a mechanic told me that water backing into the motor was only a problem when running the start motor excessively and the motor not starting up...?? I also recall something about that from another source..?

Btw: I grew up with my family of five cruising for many weeks at a time on an e27

 

[Afrakes]

Every time I had to remove the carb and clean it thoroughly. It would only stay unobstructed for a few days. Got to the point where I had two carbs in rotation. I could switch out carbs in about 10 minutes. If your standpipe is of the same design as illustrated in the E-27 manual you shouldn't have to worry about water intrusion when cranking. Just how much clearance do you have between the carb and engine compartment? Can you remove the batteries and create removable access panel? Get the quick disconnect fitting for the throttle cable. Makes things much easier.

 

[tenders]

You should get on the Moyer forums for A4 advice, moyermarine.com.

In my opinion you have three must-do items:

Replace the fuel tank - mild steel tanks are not that expensive, if you have the old one in hand a shop can fab you a new one pretty quickly. A plastic Moeller tank of appropriate size will be even cheaper.

Remove and clean out that carb

Put an in-line polishing filter between the fuel pump and the carb, and a Racor filter between the tank and the fuel pump, because that rusty crud is going to be floating around in your fuel system for a while even with the new tank.

 

[Macgyro]

Moyer newsletters

Look at the Moyer marine newsletters. I think they said something about cranking with the water shutoff, then opening the valve once it fires. A bit too much procedure for me, but may work until you find an engine guru to fix your not firing right up problems. #1 fix your fuel tank. #2 get a professional to look at your engine. I tried the DIY route until I finally found someone who got right to the problem with no fuss. WOW what a difference! I replaced so many parts myself in my Mercruiser (powerboat) that I thought I rebuilt the engine, and then this guy comes in and fixes the problem within 2 hours. It's worth $65 an hour if you can find someone worth it. I paid over $240 for a new fuel pump that I didn't need on my Mercruiser, and then paid this guy less than $140 and finally the engine runs good. Anyway, Best Wishes, if you live in the Delaware area, I'll give you his number, he can probably work on Atomics too.

Dean

 

[Afrakes]

Gas Lines

In addition to Tenders' suggestions. Make sure to replace all of the gas lines. Clean the filter on your electric fuel pump, if you have one. If not take your mechanical one apart and clean that also.

 

[tenders]

Unless you are sure your mechanic knows something about A4s, I would not encourage you to throw money at a pro mechanic.

The A4 is a stupid-simple engine once you get to know it, and if you don't know it, you are missing out on a real treat but more importantly you are up a creek if it won't start some day and you have no idea where to begin to troubleshoot it.

The modus operandi of mechanics who are used to working on diesels and more modern gas engines is very often to throw parts at the problem until it goes away. And good luck getting one to show up at your boat and have the problem fixed on YOUR schedule. A mechanic has no more tricks up his sleeve for taking off the carb than you do. Never mind the cost savings - in the TIME you take to find a proper mechanic and explain the problem you can have that puppy off, apart, cleaned up, and back on for no more than the cost of a couple of gaskets and MAYBE a carb rebuild kit. There are great resources on Moyermarine.com and on YouTube for how to do this.

I've had carbs off several times in the 30 years I've been around A4s, and am each time impressed by the fact that it does anything at all considering how simple it is. Not counting the throttle and choke, there are only two moving parts in it: the float in the carb bowl, and the needle valve that the float presses up against. Everything else is simply a chamber or a nozzle for fuel and/or air that might get gummed up.

 

[Scott Peterson]

Thanks for Replies!

A new poly tank and all new fuel lines is in progress...

I did not replace the tiny filter coupled to the fuel pump but bypassed everything else - so will do...

Will check out Newsletter...

Did find a local mechanic to look at it... Nice guy and well regarded locally - he asked me to cut an access hatch for carb but then as he looked at the battery cradle glassed in on the other side his sentence kind of trailed off and he started talking about the ignition system suspects (hoping that carb is okay).

Responses to this thread make me feel like it is most likely the carb, and there will need to be a way to get it out. Right now you can fit a flat hand between the carb and compartment panel

I agree - I need to know how to trouble shoot and work on the little beast (but would rather not) - Last time I had to adjust points was one of my vw buses many moons ago...
-but nice to hear something positive about an A4!!!

I have to move this boat out of a harbor that often has surf on the entrance (many of Those Videos were filmed there), the idea of tossing out a hook in the surf zone because of motor likely to stall is not my idea of a good time...

Many thanks to all for the tips and advice!!
Scott

 

[Scott Peterson]

And Cranking...

I will look into keeping the water shut off while cranking but the A4 manual says Do Not - water pump needs water during cranking? And water was pulsing out the transom fitting - just with cranking...

 

[Walter Pearson]

Exhaust Type?

Seems to me you would want to make sure of the muffler type - original stand pipe, or a water-lift. Excessive cranking with a water-lift can flood the engine with coolant and it might pay to shut off the intake under some conditions. Coolant coming back into the engine with a stand pipe would indicate you've got some structural problems inside that muffler.

 

[Scott Peterson]

Exhaust type

There was a diagram for a water lift muffler in a drawer and I was told by the mechanic to be careful about flooding the engine but it doesn't make sense - I have been away from the boat for a month but will double check with my own eyes...

Thanks again for reply
Scott

 

[Walter Pearson]

Choke Adjustment

Assuming you use a troubleshooting procedure from Moyer and rule out spark or fuel supply issues, make sure the choke plate is tightly closed. Just the slightest opening when the engine is cold can result in lots of cranking and having to baby the throttle - when, and if, it starts.

 

[Scott Peterson]

Carb Choke Plate

Thank you for that tip - which get's back to my main issue of ridiculous access to the carb - even visually - and wondering if there is anyone out there with an e35 with the A4 installed forward to see if they had to cut away part of the battery cradle, move batteries, etc. to permit decent access to the carb - or if they are able to remove it vertically for any kind of inspection or service..? My latest inclination is to move the batteries to a new place under the companion way and go nuts on opening up the panel right up port side of the motor.

HOWEVER, I am reluctant to do so because there is just no way that since 1973 that carb hasn't had lot's of work done on it - so there must be a trick! The mechanic told me to get the saws out and cut away!! (but why hasn't it already been cut away in 40 years..?!)