Accessing hot water heater and more...

[mherrcat]

Background:
I discovered a trickle of water coming from under the fuel tank when the engine is running. It starts about one minute or so after the engine is started and it will slowly stop a couple of minutes after the engine is shut down. There is no leak from the exhaust system that I can see and no leak from the anti-siphon vent from the engine salt water outlet. The only place I can figure it is coming from is the hot water heater. There are two hoses going to the hot water heater from the engine/accumulation tank, but I can't see where they connect.

Problem:
I can get to the port side of the hot water heater where the two fresh water lines connect, but how can I get to the starboard side? There doesn't seem to be any way to do it. The boat is an E30+. The only access to that area is through the port side cockpit locker and the stern cockpit locker on the port side. (The starboard stern cockpit locker houses the propane tank.)

Sidebar 1:
What is the "accumulation tank" for? I noticed it on the boat and couldn't figure out what it was until I found it on the drawings of the system plans.

Sidebar 2:
The starboard cockpit drain seems to be clogged. Is there a through-hull fitting for that drain that has a valve? And if so, where is it? According to the drawings the port side cockpit drain connects to the galley sink drain and there is a valve there.

(Sorry for all the questions in one post!)

 

[Shadowfax]

First off it would be good to know what model and year Ericson you have.

An accumulation tank is to limit the water pump from pulsating. If yo turn the water on and the water pump does not immediately come on the accumulation tank is working.

The leak may be in the heat exchanger hose between the engine and the hot water heater. The engine will heat the water when the engine is on via this system.

Again knowing which Ericson you have would help members get specific with you.

Good Luck

 

[mherrcat]

Sorry, forgot to include the year:

1985 E30+

 

[Frank Langer]

Depending on which engine you have (assuming you have the universal 5416/M20 common on these boats), the leak may also be coming from the heat exchanger, which is accessible through the port locker (it looks like a foot long cylinder about 2 inches diameter near the back of the engine, near the top. Water could be dripping down from the hoses there. Are you sure it's a water leak and not a fuel leak, since you mention it's under the fuel tank? You should be able to smell the difference easily.

For the starboard cockpit scupper, there is a seacock in a port opening under the starboard quarterberth cushion (there are two such ports, and I think this is the one further back towards the stern. I have had success clearing a minor blockage using a plunger (yes, like for toilets) on the scupper in the cockpit, but make sure the seacock is open before you try that. You're right that the port cockpit scupper hose connects to the same thruhull as the galley sink. I learned this by closing the galley seacock before leaving the boat, and finding water in the sink on my return and the cockpit having a bit of water in it--I thought the scupper was blocked, but it all drained out of the sink and the cockpit when I opened the galley sink seacock; it's a strange design.

Good luck and keep us posted on your progress.

Frank.

 

[mherrcat]

The engine is the M18 model.

The water is definitely coming from under the fuel tank. It's very obvious.
Just haven't been able to figure out a way to get to the starboard side of the water heater.

I suspected the seacock for the cockpit drain might be under the quarter berth but didn't think of it until after I left the boat. Will check that this weekend.

There may be a fuel leak as well, but that's probably a topic for another thread after I've done more investigating...

 

[Frank Langer]

If you do need to access the starboard side of the engine, I think there is a piece of panel between the quarterberth and the engine that is screwed into place there. I have not had to remove it, so I'm not certain about it, but I'd check that for possible access.
Good luck!
Frank.

 

[WhiteNoise]

Have the same issue

Hey mherrcat

I'm beginning to reinstall my M18. I will send some pics. Feel free to write me with any questions. I now know that space inside and out.

My first guess based on your statement, "It starts about one minute or so after the engine is started and it will slowly stop a couple of minutes after the engine is shut down." is this is normal. The water is probably from the stuffing box. If that's the case it is set perfectly. No water drip when stopped and a little bit when in gear. If it's dripping a lot while in gear than you may have another issue.
Frank could also be right about the exchanger. I had to replace that gasket on mine as mine was not yet leaking but sure looked like it was only a matter of time.

If that's not it then:
While I was down there I pulled the fuel tank to inspect. Under the tank is the mount for the skeg (probably not the right word) that hold the cutlass bearing. That is covered by a huge mound of glass. Very overbuilt but definitely not a bad thing.

The mound traps a bit of water and then runs down to the bilge. First I thought rudder post but I'm on the hard so I dried it up and sure enough after a rain I had a little water there again.

Basically I have a small leak somewhere and the water is getting trapped behind the mound of glass and then fills to a point that it leaks down, under the tank, under the motor pan, and into the bilge.

I suspect your issue could be the same.

 

[Frank Langer]

Chris, how hard was it to pull your fuel tank? Could that be done without taking the motor out? And did your fuel tank show any signs of corrosion? I also have a 1984 Ericson 30+ and am wondering if I'm on borrowed time for developing a fuel leak. Any comments or advice?
Thanks,
Frank

 

[mherrcat]

I wish it were the stuffing box; that's much easier to reach! The water seems to definitely be coming from under the fuel tank. I checked the stuffing box when the engine was in gear and didn't see any drips. (I'm a little concerned about that now, too.) The water is there even when the engine is not in gear; I tested that by letting the engine run for about 10 minutes without putting it in gear.

Just to so I'm clear on this, the dripping from the stuffing box should be coming from where the prop shaft enters the stuffing box? The water I am seeing is coming from well aft of where the stuffing box connects to the shaft log. (I hope I got all the terms right!)

Now that I'm thinking about it, wouldn't a leak between the engine and the water heater be on the fresh water side of the engine cooling system? If so, I should be seeing coolant leaking, not clear water, right?

Maybe it is coming from somewhere else. Now I'm starting to get confused...

 

[Frank Langer]

I'm no expert on all of this, and am still learning about boat systems, but until someone more knowledgeable replies, the following may be helpful.

The stuffing box should be dripping slightly when the prop shaft is turning (unless you have a PSS dripless seal, which looks different and can be found by doing a web search). So if yours isn't dripping a bit, and isn't a PSS, you may want to replace the "packing" and adjust the stuffing box to achieve the right amount of dripping.

The water heater should only have clear water in it, as that's what will also come out of your hot water tap--so it shouldn't be coolant in there, even if you have a fresh water cooled engine. So you could have a leak at the hoses, or even in the water heater itself (usually at the seams, I think). The previous owner of my 1984 E30+ replaced the water heater about five years ago, as it developed a leak. So that could still be your problem. But I would check all the hose connections first, if you haven't done so. I would also check if you have a leak when the engine is off, but you have water pressure from your water system pressure pump--that would tell you it's in the plumbing, including the water heater, without involving the engine.

Good luck and keep us posted--there's got to be an answer to this, though it's sometimes hard to track down.

Frank.

 

[Shadowfax]

A slight correction to Franks post. If your water heater is connected to the engine to provide heat to the water heater when the engine is running then there is coolant in the hot water heater via the heat exchanger located in the water heater to allow this to happen. This coolant DOES NOT mix with the potable water in the hot water tank, but there is coolant in the hot water tank if your hot water heater has a heat exchanger

 

[mherrcat]

Now I am suspecting the water heater. If there was a leak in the lines from the engine to the water heater, I would be seeing coolant instead of clear water. It probably only starts to leak when the temperature gets to the point where it causes enough pressure.

I'll be tasting the leaking water for salt next time I'm on the boat...

I do want to repack the stuffing box, but I'm waiting until we have the boat out of the water to repaint the bottom.

 

[WhiteNoise]

could be

Mherrcat

Your assumptions about the water heater could be true.
To clarify, your M-18 does use the hot coolant water coming from the heat exchanger to heat up the tank of potable water in the hot water tank by passing this hot coolant through the water tank via coils.

You could be right. Most of the 30+ models came with the Raritan heater. There is an owners manual of the website. You may want to be sure the temperature and/or pressure relief valves aren't leaking. That manual actually makes mention of it.

Frank

I removed the tank from the lazarette even though the engine was removed at the time. Believe it or not it was just easier. Just had to unmount the manual bilge pump. I had some corrosion but the tank is not leaking. Because it was so easy to remove I decided to hold off and am reinstalling it this year but planning to replace next. Budget's getting a bit tight this season with the engine overhaul and all.

 

[mherrcat]

Thanks for the tip on Raritan. I'm studying the manual now. It looks like it could be the Temperature and Pressure Valve Drain.

 

[mherrcat]

Well, I checked out the water heater connections and couldn't see anything leaking. While I was in there I tripped the pressure relief valve and sprayed a shot of water all over myself. Then, of course, the valve started dripping and wouldn't stop. So I connected a length of hose to drain it to the bilge. (Probably should have had the hose there all along...) Started the engine, and...no more water coming from under the fuel tank. Don't know what I did or why it stopped or where it was initially coming from. Now I'll need to check the relief valve again to see if it is still dripping. If so, then according to the Raritan info the valve will have to be replaced.

 

[Sean Engle]

drip-drip-drip...

I got to this thread late...you can disregard the following response...

Glad you got it fixed - sorry for the shower!

//sse

=====================

It's most likely your water heater's bleed valve.

When it gets to temp it drips a little then stops as the water expands in the system. I had a Isotherm water heater, and it did it all the time - not a big deal...

Take a wad a paper towels and put it below the valve - then run the engine up - you'll see what I mean...

//sse

 

[mherrcat]

Thanks. That confirms what I was thinking. Hopefully that's all it is!