40 years of monohull "evolution"

Nick J

Sustaining Member
Moderator
Blogs Author
I spent a few hours at the top of my mast on Sunday replacing my VHF antenna and terminating the existing COAX. I took the opportunity to take some pictures of our E 35-3 and our dock neighbor's new Catalina 355. The difference in design is staggering from this view. 20240414_164043.jpg
 
Cool action shot! I’ve noticed many/all (?) Catalinas share that boxy aft shape - down to the 18 and 22 footers. Is this the result of a performance consideration or is it just to allow more space down below?
I’m not very schooled by way of hull designs, would assume keel shape has some relation to things as well.
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Evolution is often used to denote progress or some sort of advancement in technology or engineering.
I concur with putting the word in quotes, for this thread. :(
The sailboat market has changed hugely in the last couple decades. To me, it's now akin to the power boat market in providing second home-type accommodations on the water, with "sailing" added for those who fancy the title of Sailor.

The extreme beam and wide sterns, along with more-blunt bows give masses of room inside, and this appeals to new buyers.
The current crop of sail boats seem to be designed for a weather envelope of winds about 10 to 14 kt, and sea state of waves under one foot. They spend a lot of time motoring. Or, in a slip.
Ironic to see the OP's photo showing a large Catalina, since a friend of ours was persuaded (strongly) to buy a roomy boat so that his non sailing spouse would come along and cruise for a few days at a time. Also, the chosen boat should "tilt" very little. She got her wish.

So he sold a pristine Yamaha 33 that was all around fast & wicked fast to weather, and bought a Catalina 350 model. Tons of entertaining room inside and large cabin aft, and it sails... kind of OK, but not really well. He still talks about how much he misses the Y-33. FWIW, the Yamaha had a well thought out full cruising interior, but within the limits of an IOR hull form.
Full disclosure: I got to drive it quite often and loved the way it powered up going to weather. Tiller steered, and effortless to helm.
Comfortable layout for a multi day coastal offshore trip, also.

Oops. Rant mode off again; "Breathe in, breathe out, move on."
Or perhaps the much older quote: Sic Transit Gloria Mundi.
:rolleyes:
 
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Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
This topic is like looking at yourself in a mirror, which in my present case is always a shock. That's the reality?

We are all members of the royal court of the monarch Bruce King, a designer who flourished when sailboats were expected to be beautiful, and if you were rich enough, to be works of art. The cathedral at Notre Dame was built for the glory of an idea, and nobody said it also ought to be good for rock concerts.

But what is a sailboat for? What does the mirror say? It says you are captive of a time-honored aesthetic, such that when I saw a neglected 32-3 hanging in straps my hand went direct to my wallet. The eye computes not only the lines of the boat, but the lines of you. I still think it is the prettiest of all Ericson models. Which tells you more about me than about a boat.

The E38, when the companionway hatch is opened, welcomes to a world of joinery and varnish, all of it laboriously stitched together like a memory quilt of dead carpenters, forests, and time cards. It has the same influence of sheer as the 32-3, and the effect is just more of more. A second Tiramisu, monsignor? Don't mind if I do.

1713385534731.png

These are happenstances of genetic predisposition to certain forms, in defiance of rational or practical considerations. Perhaps admiration for a sheerline is imprinted a prioi, and not even a choice. But surely a sheerline was not evolved to save the race of sailors, except maybe as naval architecture, insofar as ugly boats sank! More probably it is a function of snobbish discrimination, admiration of J-Class yachts owned by railroad barons, and an ornery stubbornness born of love of tradition, as embarrassingly inhabited by Edmund Burke, who opposed the French Revolution, in addition to founding a set of political ideas so eventually political in their nature as to be forbidden here, insofar as we are a bastion of tolerance and goodwill, and not a bunch of screaming lunatics like Sailing Anarchy or the current House of Representatives. I hope last remark does not violate the forum treaty.

Now to the view seen from Nick's masthead. My god, what an ugly piece of flotsom! A wedge of pizza floating on oil! An arrowhead fallen off a utility pole! A fat-gut with a fat butt wearing a canvas hat. Compared to a Fragonard Ericson, why, the equivalent of the Mona Lisa squatting in a field relieving herself under a djellaba!

frag Capture.JPG...Thelonious II DepartingPS 2017 .jpg
The reader, by J-H Fragonard. The E381, by Bruce King. The resemblance is obvious.

All of this is true and obvious, and legally actionable, and ought to be litigated by the Supreme Court of Yachting, if only there were such a thing and not populated by boobs and courtiers wearing plume hats, which by the way, you know, is what they say about us--a bunch of dandies stuck in the past who eschew all forms of convenience and dinghy-friendly transoms and vast owner's cabins where milady may take her ease pulling off her hose, and there are windows, not ports, and the essence of a French Motel 6 is so perfectly captured in their teak-free Formica-grey salon, not saloon, with a decor awarded by the italics it so rightly deserves.

I am appalled by convenience in all its forms, all its forms being well noted during any trip to Catalina Island , where families dangle over broad water-level stern platforms, having got there in the straight line granted by twin wheels, while all their toys float round them like a necklace of inflated indulgence and children splash irritatingly whilst grinning and wanting to do this again, soon!

I just don't like innovation. These Ozempic-free yachts slap going to windward, although nobody goes to windward anymore, and provide far too much space in the cockpit dedicated to meaningless dockside cocktail entertainment, which is why people buy sailboats nowadays, not to race Francis Chichester across the freezing Atlantic the wrong way against seven gales with self-steering that doesn't work. ,What is wrong with these people?

Give me iron men and steely women and Tarzan's children, and I tell you we will conquer this newfangled widebutt world.

Or maybe sailing alone is more my fate, which like it or not is what I mostly do, because my ass, meaning donkey, burro, etc, is too small for the load, and they say they would rather walk.

Hmmm. The mirror, again.

Well, I have nothing else to do today, since I can't see out of one eye, having just had cataract surgery which promises to be a big success. and perhaps may make me see things in an entirely new light. Or any light at all.

But don't count on it, sweetheart.
 

klb67pgh

Member III
That's a great picture/perspective.

I recognize that the wide availability of late 70s and early to mid 80s boats of various flavors makes entry into sailing at 23' to 38' fairly easily attainable to someone who wants to try it. Then you get to decide how much money you want to or have to pour into it to keep the dream alive. But you can keep it going a while, especially if you don't care quite what your boat looks like. With that I often wonder what the options will be in 20 years, perhaps when my 15 and 11 year old sons are shopping for their own bigger boat. Will there be a new equivalent to the starter 80s keel boats often sought in the last 20 years, or will they still be looking for the same boats, with more tired and less numerous examples available, since there isn't really anything newer to replace them? Is there a diamond in the rough that might have.twin helms, an aft stateroom and a drop down transom that still looks okay and sails much better than its counterparts, that won't still be approaching 6 figures? I'm genuinely interested if there is an answer.
 

gareth harris

Sustaining Member
There is a nasty side to me. Once when single handing in San Diego Bay (asking people to go sailing on my old Ericson apparently lacked the appeal I thought it had) I saw a multi-hundred thousand dollar brand new forty something foot misshapen yacht idle in the middle of the bay with sails flapping meaninglessly. I simply could not resist altering my route slightly to pass close enough to hear one of the women onboard say indignantly: 'Well he can move!'
 

ConchyDug

Member III
Oh is this where the old men hang out and hate on new things like a VFW?:rolleyes: Heck at least the Catalina boats have elliptical rudders and have more usable waterline. Hallberg-Rassy had an article not long ago illustrating the benefits of wide sterns it would be enlightening for y'all. I'm guessing in your old age y'all forgot that downwind in these IOR-ish designed hulls is a roll fest and dead slow.
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
I'm guessing in your old age y'all forgot that downwind in these IOR-ish designed hulls is a roll fest and dead slow.
I would gently question that subjective assumption. The Olson's were "MORC based" with no IOR influence, and remain quite modern in style. Except for a couple of specialized late-70's designs, the BK Ericson's were not 100% IOR boats. Mr. King was an expert at moderate design thinking and that's the reason they have aged so well. Heck, even full-on IOR designs can make nice cruising boats as one of our experienced racers on this site has pointed out --- after all, there is no requirement that anyone out cruising fly too much sail area in heavy air.

As for waterline, yeah that sometime puzzles me. Newer boats often have more static DWL than my Olson and noticeably more than the 80's Ericson's, and yet....... they are very often/usually slower in the real world.
I would guess that incompressible water molecules and wind pressures are not impressed at all by fat-butt high-sided vessel shape. :(
Putting an elliptical rudder on a an E-boat usually makes it even faster, while having one on a pudgy Hunter-Cata-Benolina cannot rescue it from baked-in mediocrity.

As for the VFW, good chuckle! I have recycled their occasional paper invites for decades. My military service time is a memory of a past chapter of my life, with a several later chapters 'written' since then. Still "writing chapters," as it were, even now. :)
I admit to enjoying the 10% vet's discount at (among others) Lowes and at the Apple store, tho!
 
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bigd14

Contributing Partner
Blogs Author
This branch of the evolutionary tree has me wondering if there was crossbreeding with a powerboat.
1713456866105.jpeg
 

ConchyDug

Member III
Olson 34 modern... compared to what? I mean I guess for the 80's it was high tech, kind of a dinosaur now if you compare it to modern racer/cruisers which the modern Hunters and Catalinas are not racer/cruisers. The Olson's are more comparable to Schock, Hobie, Express, S2, the Beneteau First models, and I'd say the modern Bene Firsts are much better sailing boats(fractional rigs, larger mains, more tunable, has better VMG to windward, can actually plane off the wind). The out of the box Catalinas can be optimized to perform similar to an Ericson usually they are packed to the gills with cruising stuff as well which doesn't help sailing. To say the wide sterns and plumb bows is slower is flat wrong. Having raced local beercans/offshore in my 38 against new Hanse, Beneteau, and Hallberg Rassy boats I can say they move just fine. Just looking at the picture of the hideous boat in post #13, the boat has a self-tacking jib which can be inhauled for better pointing, the swept spreaders indicate it's probably a fractional rig so bigger main/more tunable, a furling genoa/Code for offwind sailing judging by sheet leads, the furling main is definitely a compromise but it has full length battens, it's ugly but I bet it moves. Olsons and Ericsons are sharp looking boats, plus you always get to hear people's "Ericson" story, but to compare them to modern designs in terms of performance is pretty silly.
 

Kenneth K

1985 32-3, Puget Sound
Blogs Author
The best part about drinking your tea with a pinky extended is the air of superiority it allows you over those who grasp the mug with a full hand.

It's a big world out there. And people have choices. Anyone who buys a new Catalina could have bought six or seven old Ericsons for the same price. But didn't. And, no doubt, there are websites out there somewhere for classic wooden sailboats owners. I bet those guys get a kick out of us patting ourselves on the back about how much prettier our "little plastic tubs" are than those other little plastic tubs.

Or, ask a Catalina owner what he thinks about what you think about his Catalina...
 
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G Kiba

Sustaining Member
I have had a long term (2nd generation) and extremely loyal Catalina owner sail my Olson 911. His eyes lit-up the first time he went to whether. "Not in the same league! This boat rocks!". We rafted up later that summer and spent half the day comparing the differences with his Catalina 30. We even both dove the keels to see the differences. It was one of those 100 degree days on the delta.
 

bgary

Advanced Beginner
Blogs Author
I saw this in another forum - comparing the shape of a 1967 Swan-42 and the more "modern" Club Swan 42....

(I'd take the 1967 version any day)

swan shapes.jpg
 

Prairie Schooner

Jeff & Donna, E35-3 purchased 7/21
I saw this in another forum - comparing the shape of a 1967 Swan-42 and the more "modern" Club Swan 42....

(I'd take the 1967 version any day)
club swan 42 aft.jpg
I really like the lines of the '67 too. However, in the later models, with a PHRF of -6 and a cockpit like this*, it's a little hard to argue the wide stern is designed for cocktails and cushy cruising. And I don't think you're making that claim about this Swan, necessarily. The boat in post #13 transforms some sound modern naval architecture into an abomination. - I was a consumer product designer for 30 years and taught college level industrial design for 15. Beauty is subjective. Speed can be measured. It's always a fun discussion on whether there are some things which are objectively ugly. I want to say yes, though grasp for an ironclad argument.

*I couldn't find any reference on 2019 specs. I think the model in the cockpit picture ended in 2013.

Fun topic. Thanks for the photo Nick!
 
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