23 mk 2 haulout questions

[ben]

I'm hauling out my '76 Ericson 23, swing keel model this weekend. This is my first boat / first time hauling out so I have a lot of questions.
She is going on blocks in a local marina (I don't have a trailer).
I'd like her to be as available to work on as possible over the Winter and before I put her back in next Spring.
And she was hauled early this year, painted and had her keel pendant replaced.

Is it better to have her put on blocks and stands up high so the keel can come all the way down? Put down with the keel pulled all the way up? Or somewhere in between (can't imagine why, but like I said, I'm new to this)?

I don't have any reason to doubt the previous owner painted the bottom and replaced the pendant as claimed, but generally would prefer to keep everything as accessible as possible.
I definitely want to make some repairs / improvements in the cabin and on the deck while she's on the hard, so I'll be climbing around up there if that factors into it.

Are there any particular instructions I should give the marina in terms of where to place the blocks and stands?

Thanks so much for any advice you can give.

 

[frick]

Will the Yard let you work on the Swing Keel while in the Travel list

I'm hauling out my '76 Ericson 23, swing keel model this weekend. This is my first boat / first time hauling out so I have a lot of questions.
She is going on blocks in a local marina (I don't have a trailer).
I'd like her to be as available to work on as possible over the Winter and before I put her back in next Spring.
And she was hauled early this year, painted and had her keel pendant replaced.

Is it better to have her put on blocks and stands up high so the keel can come all the way down? Put down with the keel pulled all the way up? Or somewhere in between (can't imagine why, but like I said, I'm new to this)?

I don't have any reason to doubt the previous owner painted the bottom and replaced the pendant as claimed, but generally would prefer to keep everything as accessible as possible.
I definitely want to make some repairs / improvements in the cabin and on the deck while she's on the hard, so I'll be climbing around up there if that factors into it.

Are there any particular instructions I should give the marina in terms of where to place the blocks and stands?

Thanks so much for any advice you can give.

My 2 cents:
As the weight of the boat should be on the keel and not on the sides or bottom via the jack stands. I would see if the yard could pull your boat and then leave in the sling of the travel lift for the week end while your scrape and paint the keel.

That what they do with the Big Boats in my Yard.

Rick+

 

[davisr]

Here's an article I wrote about putting my E25 on jackstands.

http://www.ericson25.com/2013/10/trailer-to-jackstand-transfer-or-how-to.html

Here's a related one on my installation of my centerboard.

http://www.ericson25.com/2013/10/centerboard-installation.html

Roscoe

 

[ben]

Thanks for the advice. I'm waiting to hear back from the harbor master on how long he'll let me stay on the lift. I think unless there is something clearly wrong with the trunk or board I'll do a good cleaning then set her down on blocks with the board up.

 

[davisr]

Ben,

It might be beneficial to remove the board in the fall and reinstall it in the spring. It's possible that the board needs some work and/or reinforcement. There have been some Ericson owners who have lost centerboards unexpectedly, thinking them to be in good condition.

http://www.ericson25.com/2012/07/centerboard-removal.html

http://www.ericson25.com/2013/05/centerboard-extraction-and-analysis.html

Roscoe

 

[ben]

Heard back from the harbormaster. I have an extra hour on the sling, but that's it.
What should I be looking for or is that enough time if I were to decide to pull the board? I'm pretty sure I can put it back up on the lift later in the offseason without breaking the bank too, so I'm more interested in getting a good idea on what if anything it needs than maximizing work while it's in the sling.. and ideally being able to put it down board lowered if I see something that would take some time to fix.

 

[davisr]

Maybe some other E23cb and E25cb owners can weigh in on this. There are plenty out there. My advice, based on my own experience, would be to take advantage of this opportunity by pulling the board. This will allow you the leisure to inspect it thoroughly on some sawhorses in your backyard. There are numerous accounts of owners taking their boats for a leisurely sail and suddenly, for inexplicable reasons, losing their centerboards. It's my view that the most likely point of failure is the pin hole in the centerboard. Over the years, water creeps into the dense foam that surrounds the interior of the pin hole. This water causes the steel spine to corrode. Here's a picture of what the inside of my board looked like when I demolished it. As you can see . . . there's no steel left. In other words, the only thing supporting the pin in the board was cloth and foam. Some owners have remedied this (without demolishing their boards) simply by reinforcing the pin hole area with metal.

http://www.ericson25.com/2013/01/centerboard-construction-part-1.html

Roscoe

 

[ben]

Maybe some other E23cb and E25cb owners can weigh in on this. There are plenty out there. My advice, based on my own experience, would be to take advantage of this opportunity by pulling the board. This will allow you the leisure to inspect it thoroughly on some sawhorses in your backyard. There are numerous accounts of owners taking their boats for a leisurely sail and suddenly, for inexplicable reasons, losing their centerboards. It's my view that the most likely point of failure is the pin hole in the centerboard. Over the years, water creeps into the dense foam that surrounds the interior of the pin hole. This water causes the steel spine to corrode. Here's a picture of what the inside of my board looked like when I demolished it. As you can see . . . there's no steel left. In other words, the only thing supporting the pin in the board was cloth and foam. Some owners have remedied this (without demolishing their boards) simply by reinforcing the pin hole area with metal.

http://www.ericson25.com/2013/01/centerboard-construction-part-1.html

Roscoe

Thanks Roscoe, I might take it off this Winter, possibly Monday. Is it a one man job in an hour? I'm not sure how much help I'll have for how long.
I'm also curious about that picture, what is the other hole (still visible to the left in your picture) through the centerboard?
Is there a middle ground for inspection between of taking it off and looking for visible damage to the fiberglass?

 

[davisr]

You definitely need a second person, since the board weighs anywhere from 125-150 lbs. An hour should be enough time. There are two screws that hold the pin in place. Here's a picture of my original pin beside the new one I fabricated:

http://www.ericson25.com/2013/06/centerboard-pin-old-and-new.html

 

[ben]

23 mk 2 centerboard removed

I took your advice and my wife and I removed the board while we had out boat on the sling.
I'll add some pics later
good news:
the board seems to be in very good shape. Has a steal bushing all the way through the hole in the board.
the pendant (as expected since it was done by the PO this year) was in excellent shape and brand new.
the covers / screw plates (2 screws per side holding a steel plate over the pin) came off easily, seemed well sealed.
she's sitting nicely on blocks now, and low enough for me to climb in from a small ladder easily without having her way up in the air with the board fully down.

the surprising:
unlike Roscoe's 25 pin which is shaped on the ends, the pin for my board was slightly shorter than the width of the shoal keel/trunk, and kept in with some kind of filler or epoxy on both sides that I had to chisel out to get to the pin and push it out.

the bad. maybe?:
the trunk was in good shape behind the board, but had a decent amount of growth in front of the board.
The board hung down completely vertical (the specs drawing and draft suggest it should bottom out at an angle)..

Are there any other 23 owners who have seen their boards in the fully-down position?
Am I right in assuming it shouldn't be fully vertical?
If so, is there any harm in it being vertical? ( I can mark various positions on the pendant line so as to sail with it at less than the full draft ).
Is it likely to be hanging that way because some material in the front of the trunk has been removed, either on the bottom edge of the trunk (to block the leading edge of the board) or the top of the cabinet (to block the top of the board) or both?
Any advice on rebuilding that if i should? (my first thought is to get a piece of steel fabricated for that whole space).

Thanks!

 

[davisr]

Ben,

Glad you centerboard appears to be in good condition. Sounds like there are some differences here and there between the board for the E25 and the E23. Here's another article about the E25 centerboard, specifically the centerboard trunk. Maybe it will be of some help with the problem you're trying to solve.

http://www.ericson25.com/2012/07/ericson-25-centerboard-basic.html

Roscoe

 

[ben]

Thanks for that article. The stop is almost certainly missing in my trunk. I haven't been under it tonight, but now that I know what I'm looking for I'll take a good look soon.
I've attached some pics of the pin, tab, and only damage to the centerboard (right where it apparently broke off the stop in the trunk).

My current thinking is I'll get an estimate from some local shipwrights on rebuilding that stop, and repairing any other damage I find in the trunk.

Is the corrosion on the tab that attaches to the pendant bad enough to consider having a new one welded on? I'm hoping to not destroy and rebuild this board, as everything not pictured seems to be in excellent shape.

Thanks again for all advice.
-Ben

 

[Christian Williams]

rotated

 

[davisr]

Ben,

If you could post a few pictures of the entire board, it would be very helpful. It's possible that the forward end of the board (the end near the pin hole) broke off. It looks like someone has done some repair work on that end. If the E23 board and trunk are like the E25 board and trunk, then the forward end of the board is what helps to keep the board from swinging down into a vertical position when deployed. There is a nub on that forward end that fits into a pocket of sorts in the trunk (see the red in the diagram below). The link that I posted most recently describes this more fully.

Roscoe

 

[mfield]

Ben,

(see the red in the diagram below).

Roscoe

Thanks for the diagram, it has been educational to read about how the swinging keel works.

 

[davisr]

Thanks for the diagram, it has been educational to read about how the swinging keel works.

Thanks, Mike. Ever since I bought my E25 I've been curious about centerboards and the centerboard concept. Several years ago I bought an ex-library copy of The Oxford Companion to Ships and the Sea on Amazon.com for about about a penny (plus about $3.99 for shipping). I was surprised to discover that centerboards were an innovation that came about during the exploration of the New World and the trade that developed as a result of this exploration. Recently I had the opportunity to sail aboard the tall ship, Liberty Clipper, from Portsmouth, VA to Charleston, SC around Cape Hatteras. This vessel, the Liberty Clipper, has a centerboard - a gigantic one, I might add. When we fueled up before sailing out, we had to crank up the centerboard before approaching the fueling dock. It took a lot of team effort. In the attached picture you can see the large, steel centerboard trunk - what looks to be a bulkhead between the two amidships companionways. You can also see the handle for the winch.

Roscoe

 

[ben]

Photos of the stop in the trunk (still intact as far as I can tell), and the full centerboard (bonus rudder and tiller because I only had 2 saw horses handy).

 

[davisr]

Ben,

Take a look at this thread about E23 and E25 centerboards. A guy named Gordon provides some pictures of his E23 board. It looks very similar in shape to the E25 board. Both have nubs on the forward ends - the nubs that help to keep the board swept back at an angle rather than straight up and down when deployed. It's possible that E23 boards varied over time, since there are different E23s. All E25 boards are the same. If all E23 boards are the same, then it appears that the nub is missing from the end of your board. In the first picture you provided, a crack was visible in the end of the board. That crack should not be there. That means that water is creeping into the board. It's possible that the end of the board became compromised and broke off at some point in the past. When the previous owner discovered this, he ground off the rough edges and fixed the wound with some epoxy. I could be wrong. It would help if some other E23 owners out there would speak up and offer some advice.

http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/showthread.php?5545-E-25-s-and-E-23-s-Centerboard

Roscoe