2017 Rerigging and Electronic Updates for E38-200

[KTROBI_VALHALLA]

Hi All, After 13 years of co-ownership I have finally taken sole ownership of Valhalla. YIKES....all the bills are now mine! With that in mind, I do plan on two big 'spendy' updates this season. Valhalla is long overdue for a rerigging. Brion Toss of Port Townsend WA recommended it be done soon after we purchased the boat in 2003....it never got done. So that is priority number one. Considering the fact that I am not overly fond of heights, I think I am going to outsource this project to Northwest Riggers up in Anacortes. Yes I know.....Cha-ching, but 27 year old rigging is not very smart and I don't like the idea of my fat ass spending a lot of time at the masthead. Any things I should look for? The second project entails bringing my electronics and instruments up into the 21 century. I currently have the venerable Autohelm ST50 instrument/transducer package. Wind and speed are working intermittently, and the depth meter seems to have a mind of its own. The Ratheon SL72 LCD Radar still works well, it just doesn't get used all that much. The Standard Horizon Nova Plus VHF just crapped out at the Chittenden locks as I was headed to CSR Marine for a haul out. The boat also has the old RayNav 300 GPS which seems to work fine but is probably obsolete. No chartplotter, I just used a handheld Garmin with Blue Charts. SO......I think its time to start an over haul. WHERE DO I START!!!! I have decided to stick with Raymarine and to lay down the Seatalk NG.... its time this stuff starts talking to each other. I will probably go with one of the Raymarine MFD's at the helm and eliminate all the individual instrument displays and pods that reside there now. One of my questions is, considering the expense of an MFD do most folks make this a permanent installation or are they rigged to be removable? I would hate like hell to make the investment and then have the unit find legs. Its a simple mount with a quick connect, I dont like the idea of leaving it out in the open cockpit for all to snatch! Am I just being paranoid? I am also looking at an ICOM VHF radio with DSC/GPS but sans AIS receiver. Is an antenna booster necessary with the new radios? THE AIS receiver seems redundant if an AIS transponder is a future consideration. Any thoughts would be helpful. My pockets are far from being deep but some of this stuff is a necessity......so said the sailor with a new boat!

Kevin Robinson
"VALHALLA'
1990 E38-200
Hull #338
Shilshole WA (soon to be Commencement Bay)

 

[kiwisailor]

Hi All, After 13 years of co-ownership I have finally taken sole ownership of Valhalla. YIKES....all the bills are now mine! With that in mind, I do plan on two big 'spendy' updates this season. Valhalla is long overdue for a rerigging. Brion Toss of Port Townsend WA recommended it be done soon after we purchased the boat in 2003....it never got done. So that is priority number one. Considering the fact that I am not overly fond of heights, I think I am going to outsource this project to Northwest Riggers up in Anacortes. Yes I know.....Cha-ching, but 27 year old rigging is not very smart and I don't like the idea of my fat ass spending a lot of time at the masthead. Any things I should look for? The second project entails bringing my electronics and instruments up into the 21 century. I currently have the venerable Autohelm ST50 instrument/transducer package. Wind and speed are working intermittently, and the depth meter seems to have a mind of its own. The Ratheon SL72 LCD Radar still works well, it just doesn't get used all that much. The Standard Horizon Nova Plus VHF just crapped out at the Chittenden locks as I was headed to CSR Marine for a haul out. The boat also has the old RayNav 300 GPS which seems to work fine but is probably obsolete. No chartplotter, I just used a handheld Garmin with Blue Charts. SO......I think its time to start an over haul. WHERE DO I START!!!! I have decided to stick with Raymarine and to lay down the Seatalk NG.... its time this stuff starts talking to each other. I will probably go with one of the Raymarine MFD's at the helm and eliminate all the individual instrument displays and pods that reside there now. One of my questions is, considering the expense of an MFD do most folks make this a permanent installation or are they rigged to be removable? I would hate like hell to make the investment and then have the unit find legs. Its a simple mount with a quick connect, I dont like the idea of leaving it out in the open cockpit for all to snatch! Am I just being paranoid? I am also looking at an ICOM VHF radio with DSC/GPS but sans AIS receiver. Is an antenna booster necessary with the new radios? THE AIS receiver seems redundant if an AIS transponder is a future consideration. Any thoughts would be helpful. My pockets are far from being deep but some of this stuff is a necessity......so said the sailor with a new boat!

Kevin Robinson
"VALHALLA'
1990 E38-200
Hull #338
Shilshole WA (soon to be Commencement Bay)

Congratulations! I'm in an overwhelming refit too. In regards to electronics I've decided to keep my old JRC 1800 radar/plotter, it works ok and will be my main backup. I've also kept my old Garmin GPSMAP 180 and Nexus instruments and have networked them into a Brookhouse iMux with a new Standard Horizon GX2200 VHF radio (the radio is a bargain considering its capabilities) with AIS and GPS. The iMux takes all my NMEA 0183 data and networks it and provides wifi connection to my laptop and iPad running OpenCPN and iNavx. I can then see AIS targets, wind/depth data, location, waypoints etc. I'll then use this to eventually network in a new autopilot later this year. I'm also installing a ICOM IC-M802 SSB radio and will network this in as well. I haven't decided on a AIS transponder yet, but have included room and networking for one at some point in the future.

Check out Brookhouse iMux. http://brookhouseonline.com/

 

[supersailor]

Start with the rigging! Nothing else is as important as keeping the mast vertical! You can dead recon successfully as many of us have through the centuries. You can't go anywhere if the mast is in the water. I have the Raymarine plotter and digital radar and am happy with it except for price. Raymarine has a high opinion of itself. It's service has also not been the best. Prior to this boat, I have been a Nerandahal. Dead reckoning all the way.

 

[footrope]

Kevin,

I used NW Rigging (Andy, Keith) in Anacortes for my 2014-15 refit, which included all the standing rigging. I was happy with them. I too, have a recent (2014) Raymarine chartplotter and radar, AIS and an old wheel pilot. I did the installation myself. If you want to take a look sometime, let me know. I'm at Harbor Island in South Seattle.

Did you keep the boat in Tacoma or Des Moines at one time (2005)?

Craig

 

[Jason G]

I'm a live aboard at Shilshole on my E34-2 and would love to catch up with you and swap boat project info. I'm looking to replace standing rigging soon myself and have also been drooling over new electronics for the boat.

Jason
SV Kai Mana

 

[KTROBI_VALHALLA]

Kevin,

I used NW Rigging (Andy, Keith) in Anacortes for my 2014-15 refit, which included all the standing rigging. I was happy with them. I too, have a recent (2014) Raymarine chartplotter and radar, AIS and an old wheel pilot. I did the installation myself. If you want to take a look sometime, let me know. I'm at Harbor Island in South Seattle.

Did you keep the boat in Tacoma or Des Moines at one time (2005)?

Craig

Hi Craig Thanks for the response.My boat has always been slipped at Shilshole although I do live down in the southend (Covington).I am pretty sure we met a few years back at one of the Ericson sail ins at PortTownsend.I have been reading a lot of your posts with regards to all the work you have done to your boat. I am amazed at the amount of time you put into to it!.I talked to Andy from Northwest Rigging and came away quite impressed. He said He would come down to Seattle an pull the mast for the rerig versus me taking the boat to Anacortes. Where did you have your rigging done?I think I will take you up on your offer of coming over to Harbor Island. I would love to see your boat again. Maybe after the boat show if that works.Be prepared to have your brain picked!

Kevin

 

[KTROBI_VALHALLA]

I'm a live aboard at Shilshole on my E34-2 and would love to catch up with you and swap boat project info. I'm looking to replace standing rigging soon myself and have also been drooling over new electronics for the boat.

Jason
SV Kai Mana

Hi Jason what dock are you on?

 

[KTROBI_VALHALLA]

Start with the rigging! Nothing else is as important as keeping the mast vertical! You can dead recon successfully as many of us have through the centuries. You can't go anywhere if the mast is in the water. I have the Raymarine plotter and digital radar and am happy with it except for price. Raymarine has a high opinion of itself. It's service has also not been the best. Prior to this boat, I have been a Nerandahal. Dead reckoning all the way.

Absolutely Bob! I am with you. At 27 years old with only the backstay having been replaced by the PO we have been playing with fire. Its way past time and will get done this winter.With regards to dead reconning, yes I can forego the fancy chart plotter but I must admit..... I almost ran into Smith Island while crossing the Strait.....fell asleep at the helm! Maybe I should take a refresher chart reading class!

Fair Winds
Kevin

 

[KTROBI_VALHALLA]

Kevin,

I used NW Rigging (Andy, Keith) in Anacortes for my 2014-15 refit, which included all the standing rigging. I was happy with them. I too, have a recent (2014) Raymarine chartplotter and radar, AIS and an old wheel pilot. I did the installation myself. If you want to take a look sometime, let me know. I'm at Harbor Island in South Seattle.

Did you keep the boat in Tacoma or Des Moines at one time (2005)?

Craig

Hi Craig Thanks for the response.My boat has always been slipped at Shilshole although I do live down in the southend (Covington).I am pretty sure we met a few years back at one of the Ericson sail ins at PortTownsend.I have been reading a lot of your posts with regards to all the work you have done to your boat. I am amazed at the amount of time you put into to it!.I talked to Andy from Northwest Rigging and came away quite impressed. He said He would come down to Seattle an pull the mast for the rerig versus me taking the boat to Anacortes. Where did you have your rigging done?I think I will take you up on your offer of coming over to Harbor Island. I would love to see your boat again. Maybe after the boat show if that works.Be prepared to have your brain picked!

Kevin

 

[supersailor]

Absolutely Bob! I am with you. At 27 years old with only the backstay having been replaced by the PO we have been playing with fire. Its way past time and will get done this winter.With regards to dead reconning, yes I can forego the fancy chart plotter but I must admit..... I almost ran into Smith Island while crossing the Strait.....fell asleep at the helm! Maybe I should take a refresher chart reading class!

Fair Winds
Kevin

Kevin, caffeine is better for this sleepy problem. You can't read the plotter when asleep and will attempt to hit Smith Island anyway.

 

[Loren Beach]

FWIW I vote with Bob on the "priority" matter. Rigging first.. but you knew I'd say that!

One suggestion about your new rig: since many of our boats have a hydraulic back stay adjuster, do "shorten" that new BS and add a turnbuckle just above the hydraulic adjuster. Measure it so that the turn buckle is at max extension when you attach the stay. if you are out cruising and the oil leaks out, you can always tension up again with the manual turnbuckle and do the hydraulic rebuild when you have an opportunity.

Electronics -- lots of right answers. So what works for a given boat is more a matter of coincidence and timing, over the years.
Best to say what has worked, and at least have a measly data point.

Our Raymarine stuff is all working fine: ST-60 Wind, Depth, and Speed, installed about 2002, and networked, along with an additional ST-60 multi at the nav desk, installed a few years later. Not interfaced (i.e. no black box) with other instruments.
A few years ago I put in a new Raymarine WheelPilot (S1). Working perfectly and not interfaced. It replaced an old AutoHelm A4000S that always worked fine for way over a decade.

Then about 3 years ago I replaced an unreliable Garmin chart plotter with a new Lowrance 9" plotter at the helm, along with a replacement for our older but reliable Furuno radar. The new digital radar has been as good as the ads and the reviews all say it should be. Much Better radar resolution.
Last season we replaced the old-but-reliable Furuno vhf with a new Simrad radio with AIS, and this is wired into chart plotter network to pick up the gps feed.

I really like the new vhf wireless remote mic/controller, but sometimes get into a tussle with their AIS alarm settings. Having extra noise when you can clearly see the other vessel is a nuisance.

All new technology comes with additional complications... accompanying the additional useful features.

Loren

 

[bgary]

I used NW Rigging (Andy, Keith) in Anacortes

That reminds me... I was in Anacortes the week before Christmas, and noticed that the Anacortes Rigging shop (Ian) has a for-lease sign on it.

Did they move? go under?

_/)_

 

[footrope]

Hi Craig Thanks for the response.My boat has always been slipped at Shilshole although I do live down in the southend (Covington).I am pretty sure we met a few years back at one of the Ericson sail ins at PortTownsend.I have been reading a lot of your posts with regards to all the work you have done to your boat. I am amazed at the amount of time you put into to it!.I talked to Andy from Northwest Rigging and came away quite impressed. He said He would come down to Seattle an pull the mast for the rerig versus me taking the boat to Anacortes. Where did you have your rigging done?I think I will take you up on your offer of coming over to Harbor Island. I would love to see your boat again. Maybe after the boat show if that works.Be prepared to have your brain picked!

Kevin

I'm sure we met, too. Had to be Port Townsend back about 2005. We can arrange to meet during the Boat Show or another time that works for you. I'll be attending the Show at least one day, maybe two if they have the beer tasting night again. (Maybe three if they do the wine tasting - we're retired.)

I'll PM you my contact info.

Craig

 

[footrope]

That reminds me... I was in Anacortes the week before Christmas, and noticed that the Anacortes Rigging shop (Ian) has a for-lease sign on it.

Did they move? go under?

_/)_

Hmmm. Maybe they're just moving. Nothing on their website to indicate they're closing. If Kevin is talking with them I'm sure they're going to be around.

http://northwestrigging.com/

 

[bgary]

http://northwestrigging.com/

I was thinking of these guys: https://anacortesrigging.squarespace.com/

 

[toddster]

Re: Rigging and toys. If SSB radio is in your future, the backstay is usually used as the antenna. I've noticed that WM and others have backstay insulators on a tremendous discount right now, like 50% or more. So it might be worth picking up a couple if you're re-rigging anyway. (Dunno how third party riggers feel about you supplying your own materials though.) This is probably because the FCC has temporarily banned some of ICOM's radios, including the market-dominating M802, so retailers are stuck with stocks of all the accessories.
(As near as I can figure out, ICOM is required to modify their displays to show "time elapsed since last DSC transmission.")

 

[Jason G]

Hey Kevin, I'm on Q dock. Feel free to call or text time you're headed to Shilsole.

-Jason
206-930-2332
SV Kai Mana
E34-2

 

[Christian Williams]

Kevin,

Regarding the instrument package, which reflects the actual needs of the owner, a prime consideration is how many readouts at the helm. Probably at minimum

Autopilot control head
Wind
Chartplotter with depth (7" screen minimum--prices have come down)

Can the MFD run the autopilot? Anyhow, some sort of pod on the binnacle rail guard is required.

I feel an AIS transponder is very important, but a helm readout on the chartplotter is cluttered and useless to me.

So I put a Vesper Watchmate AIS-- dedicated screen--at the nav station below. That's where I talk to ships on the radio about conflicts, and generally study the traffic environment. That's also where the satphone or SSB is. I have an old GPS mounted there, too, giving the skipper full situation awareness without bothering the other watch.

For wind I'm using a new Raymarine (ex Tack-Tick) wireless anemometer. No wires up the mast. The readout can face the helmsman, or be switched to a forward-facing bracket to be visible from the companionway, or even carried below temporarily. Despite bad reviews, it works well at the moment.

I think the binnacle pod becomes the controlling factor. I would decide what instruments you need at the helm, then conceive of the housing and how the wires will run.

 

[KTROBI_VALHALLA]

Re: Rigging and toys. If SSB radio is in your future, the backstay is usually used as the antenna. I've noticed that WM and others have backstay insulators on a tremendous discount right now, like 50% or more. So it might be worth picking up a couple if you're re-rigging anyway. (Dunno how third party riggers feel about you supplying your own materials though.) This is probably because the FCC has temporarily banned some of ICOM's radios, including the market-dominating M802, so retailers are stuck with stocks of all the accessories.
(As near as I can figure out, ICOM is required to modify their displays to show "time elapsed since last DSC transmission.")

Hey toddster. I didnt mention in my original post that the PO installed a backstay insulator.He obviously had a ssb but it wasnt included in the sale when we bought the boat in 2003. I dont know if older insulators still work with new comm equipment. This is an item I will have to coordinate with my rigger when the standing rigging gets replaced. My sailing entails navigating the PugetSound/SalishSea/DesolationSound area which means I wil lalways be within vhf hailing distance of groundstations. I maybe offbase here but I think SSB seems to be more of an offshore neccesity. If I get to do the Baha thing someday SSB will be a strong consideration.I am curious about the ICOM M802 issue you mentioned? Thanks for the reply.
Kevin

 

[bgary]

My sailing entails navigating the PugetSound/SalishSea/DesolationSound area which means I wil lalways be within vhf hailing distance of groundstations. I maybe offbase here but I think SSB seems to be more of an offshore neccesity.

I'm in the same boat, so to speak. VHF is good line-of sight, range is greatly enhanced by a masthead antenna but can still be affected by islands, mountain ranges, etc.
SSB is good for hundreds/thousands of miles, which is probably overkill unless going offshore.

I'm experimenting with handheld "ham" as an inbetween mechanism. Generally speaking, 2m is line-of-sight, but there are high-powered "repeaters" all over the Sound which can, I'm told, extend range to hundreds of miles. I chatted with a friend in Spokane this morning... something I would not have been able to do with VHF.

I may put an SSB on Makana someday. Or perhaps an HF "ham" base-station that also covers the typical SSB frequencies. Don't know. But the installation of an SSB is not trivial (electrical, antenna, grounding, etc) and is only worth doing (to me) when plans to go outside the Sound get significantly more concrete.

$.02