135 or 150 Genoa for and E34 ?
- Thread starter JSM
- Start date
Jib ponderings
This is a very informative blog.
http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/entry.php?131-The-90-Percent-Jib
Your boat is VERY easily driven and you might be pleasantly surprised at how well it sails with a more moderate overlap jib. Or one with no overlap at all.
Another good thread, and reply #15 gets right to the heart of the matter.
http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoex...tting-the-Overlap-Juuuust-Right&referrerid=28
Loren
This is a very informative blog.
http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/entry.php?131-The-90-Percent-Jib
Your boat is VERY easily driven and you might be pleasantly surprised at how well it sails with a more moderate overlap jib. Or one with no overlap at all.
Another good thread, and reply #15 gets right to the heart of the matter.
http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoex...tting-the-Overlap-Juuuust-Right&referrerid=28
Loren
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Reasons for sailing with a big headsail generally include:
1.) Racing.
2.) Sailing a beamy boat that has outside tracks only (sheeting angle).
3.) Sailing primarily downwind (cruising in other words) and not wanting to raise a fly sail.
Do any of those apply?
I was sailing up the river alongside an E-34-2 awhile back. On a beam reach he had an overlapping headsail up (a 135 maybe but looked smaller) and no main. He was moving right along. The E-34-2 appears to be a headsail dominant rig with a huge foretriangle and 345 feet of listed sail area for the headsail alone. A 150 would give you well over 500 sq ft of headsail area. Overkill for recreational sailing for this boat I would think. And a lot of work.
http://sailboatdata.com/viewrecord.asp?class_id=1975
1.) Racing.
2.) Sailing a beamy boat that has outside tracks only (sheeting angle).
3.) Sailing primarily downwind (cruising in other words) and not wanting to raise a fly sail.
Do any of those apply?
I was sailing up the river alongside an E-34-2 awhile back. On a beam reach he had an overlapping headsail up (a 135 maybe but looked smaller) and no main. He was moving right along. The E-34-2 appears to be a headsail dominant rig with a huge foretriangle and 345 feet of listed sail area for the headsail alone. A 150 would give you well over 500 sq ft of headsail area. Overkill for recreational sailing for this boat I would think. And a lot of work.
http://sailboatdata.com/viewrecord.asp?class_id=1975
After some thought, I ordered a 120 overlap genoa for the new boat.
The J blade was tempting, but I need somewhat more sail area for dead downwind work to balance the steering.
I remain convinced that modern headsails with foam luffs retain their shape very well at every point of furl.
For casual sailing to windward in a breeze, I will furl to J (the foretriangle).
The J blade was tempting, but I need somewhat more sail area for dead downwind work to balance the steering.
I remain convinced that modern headsails with foam luffs retain their shape very well at every point of furl.
For casual sailing to windward in a breeze, I will furl to J (the foretriangle).
I agree with everyone's comments, even though my E-26 is a fractional rig with an already small for triangle, I find that on the windy Oregon coast a 110 is just all I need. It can handle everything from 30 kts of wind rolled up to a little 40sf handkerchief and remain incredibly effective, or as low as 6kts of wind without loosing all that much speed. And really when the wind gets really light the only thing that is going to work really well is my asymmetrical spinnaker anyhow. I don't really feel I have any holes in my sail inventory with only the 110, the main and the spinnaker on board. I might go as high as a 120 if your sail maker is really good at shaping for the roller furler and a good foam luff.
I also admit I don't do much down wind sailing, or I would go 120.
I also admit I don't do much down wind sailing, or I would go 120.
On my 87' E34-2 I often fly the 120 in up to 20kts of wind and it needs to be furled above that for sure. The boat moves so easily that I have never even raised the 150 that came with it. I prefer the high cut clew 90 when it's 15+ continuous. On the main I try to reef at 15-18Kts based on point of sail. Most of the time I'm short handed so when the wind picks up and the boat heals more than 25deg it's way more comfortable to reef. Often I find I can pick up speed with reefed sails and getting the boat back on it's feet.
-Jason
-Jason
supersailor
Contributing Partner
Out here in the Straights, I get lots of multi wind experiences. Yesterday I took my Daughter's Father-in Law out for his first sail. Flying the 130 and full main, we were doing about two knots in a wind that was not ruffling the water. A line appeared on the water and within five minutes the anemometer was reading 20-22 knots. He was most impressed with the fast hustle around the boat and he couldn't believe how fast the wind can come up around here.
I carry a 130, a 70 (more of a lapper than a blade, a symmetrical 1/2oz ghoster, and a 1 1/2oz Tri-radial. The Tri-radial is in an ATN snuffer so an old fart like me can handle it (it's huge). If I were buying new sails, I would buy a 130-135, a 90 blade and an asymmetrical spinnaker. This boat does not need a 150 except in the lightest of winds. It would be a minus in anything over about 10.
I normally carry the 130 and full main up to about 16-17 knots when I tuck in the first reef. Quite often, I will just dump the main at 20 knots and sail with just the jib. The 34 sails very well with just the jib. At 35 I have the jib rolled into about an 80 or I have the "70" up. Christian is correct in that the sail rolls nicely with the foam luff.
Unless I was racing in light air on a regular basis, I wouldn't put a 150 on the 34. Good luck.
I carry a 130, a 70 (more of a lapper than a blade, a symmetrical 1/2oz ghoster, and a 1 1/2oz Tri-radial. The Tri-radial is in an ATN snuffer so an old fart like me can handle it (it's huge). If I were buying new sails, I would buy a 130-135, a 90 blade and an asymmetrical spinnaker. This boat does not need a 150 except in the lightest of winds. It would be a minus in anything over about 10.
I normally carry the 130 and full main up to about 16-17 knots when I tuck in the first reef. Quite often, I will just dump the main at 20 knots and sail with just the jib. The 34 sails very well with just the jib. At 35 I have the jib rolled into about an 80 or I have the "70" up. Christian is correct in that the sail rolls nicely with the foam luff.
Unless I was racing in light air on a regular basis, I wouldn't put a 150 on the 34. Good luck.
markvone
Sustaining Member
150 vs 130+/- vs 100+/-
I have an E36RH with a furler in Annapolis. We have 0 - 10 kts most of the time here on the Chesapeake. The E36RH is a little lighter (with less weight in the ends) and has a slightly taller mast height. The sail area is about the same as the E34. The E34 has a longer J and slightly bigger headsails. I have 150% on the furler most of the time. My next smaller sail is a #3 (103%). These two sails cover the wind range from 2 - 20 kts with an overlap in the 10 - 15 kt range. Quantum built my 150 with a light air shape, but with enough load fiber for 17 kts so that it could be used partially furled if I have to. It's fully powered up at 12 kts and I'm de-powering the sail plan above that. My #3 is built to power up in lower winds in order to give it a wider range. Quantum designed both sails knowing I wanted to cover 0 - 20 kts with two sails with as big an overlap a possible. Both of these sails are Fusion M composite material, not Dacron.
I decided to go with two sails (150 and 103) vs a single sail in the 130 -140% range for the following reasons: I hate the sailing shape of a partially furled headsail. With typical winds of 0 - 10, I wanted the extra area of the 150 as my primary Summer headsail. I mostly day sail, and I like sailing in light air, so I wanted to be able to sail as much as possible when I go out. I like sailing upwind and the E36RH points really well. I wanted to have a smaller, heavier built sail to use in higher winds vs pushing a partially furled 130 - 140 past it's wind range. I like to have a backup jib. Reaching and running are faster with the bigger jib unless you are using an Assym or cruising Spin.
The downsides to this setup are: Changing headsails is hard. The 150 is big and heavy. I can't fold the #1 or the #3 on the boat. I try to change headsails at the dock. If I'm out sailing and have to change headsails, I lash the unused sail down on deck and deal with it back at the dock. I have to store the unused jib onboard. I had to buy two sails vs one.
If I had to do it again I would still buy two sails. The 150 gets the boat sailing in any wind over 2 kts. I rarely need the #3 in the Summer and I almost never sail the 150 partially furled. I usually switch to the #3 in the Fall on the first windy (15 kt) sail and leave it on through the Spring with a few changes up to the 150 if its light and I'm motivated. The boat needs 5 kts to get moving (barely) with the #3 and sails OK in over 10 kts.
If you consistently have at least 5 kts and less than 15 kts and/or you prefer to motor in light winds, then I would consider the benefits of the single 140 (cheaper, no sail changes, no storage). Also consider this if you don't want to deal with sail changes.
If you have 0 - 10 often and roll up and motor if it goes above 15 than a 150 will work well.
If you sail in 10 kts or more and plan to use an asymmetric for reaching and running, than a 90 - 110 will work well.
Just some ideas.
Mark
I have an E36RH with a furler in Annapolis. We have 0 - 10 kts most of the time here on the Chesapeake. The E36RH is a little lighter (with less weight in the ends) and has a slightly taller mast height. The sail area is about the same as the E34. The E34 has a longer J and slightly bigger headsails. I have 150% on the furler most of the time. My next smaller sail is a #3 (103%). These two sails cover the wind range from 2 - 20 kts with an overlap in the 10 - 15 kt range. Quantum built my 150 with a light air shape, but with enough load fiber for 17 kts so that it could be used partially furled if I have to. It's fully powered up at 12 kts and I'm de-powering the sail plan above that. My #3 is built to power up in lower winds in order to give it a wider range. Quantum designed both sails knowing I wanted to cover 0 - 20 kts with two sails with as big an overlap a possible. Both of these sails are Fusion M composite material, not Dacron.
I decided to go with two sails (150 and 103) vs a single sail in the 130 -140% range for the following reasons: I hate the sailing shape of a partially furled headsail. With typical winds of 0 - 10, I wanted the extra area of the 150 as my primary Summer headsail. I mostly day sail, and I like sailing in light air, so I wanted to be able to sail as much as possible when I go out. I like sailing upwind and the E36RH points really well. I wanted to have a smaller, heavier built sail to use in higher winds vs pushing a partially furled 130 - 140 past it's wind range. I like to have a backup jib. Reaching and running are faster with the bigger jib unless you are using an Assym or cruising Spin.
The downsides to this setup are: Changing headsails is hard. The 150 is big and heavy. I can't fold the #1 or the #3 on the boat. I try to change headsails at the dock. If I'm out sailing and have to change headsails, I lash the unused sail down on deck and deal with it back at the dock. I have to store the unused jib onboard. I had to buy two sails vs one.
If I had to do it again I would still buy two sails. The 150 gets the boat sailing in any wind over 2 kts. I rarely need the #3 in the Summer and I almost never sail the 150 partially furled. I usually switch to the #3 in the Fall on the first windy (15 kt) sail and leave it on through the Spring with a few changes up to the 150 if its light and I'm motivated. The boat needs 5 kts to get moving (barely) with the #3 and sails OK in over 10 kts.
If you consistently have at least 5 kts and less than 15 kts and/or you prefer to motor in light winds, then I would consider the benefits of the single 140 (cheaper, no sail changes, no storage). Also consider this if you don't want to deal with sail changes.
If you have 0 - 10 often and roll up and motor if it goes above 15 than a 150 will work well.
If you sail in 10 kts or more and plan to use an asymmetric for reaching and running, than a 90 - 110 will work well.
Just some ideas.
Mark
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Tom Metzger
Sustaining Partner
Sorry about coming late to the thread... been on my boat.
I have 135% genny on my E-34 which I very rarely reef. I will reef the main twice and then douse it completely before reefing the genny. The only shortcoming is in very light air when sailing well off of the wind. I can't blame the sail because I should be flying the spinnaker in these conditions.
Gary Peterson
Marine Guy
We had a 155 for years. It could become quite a handfull when the wind increased here on Lake Erie. Last year we bought a 140 and we love it. The 140 is so much better in beam reaching conditions when the wind picks up.