I just launched my e27 last Monday. The boat has never really taken on much water before, but I noticed that the fore keel bolt area (where I think they originally attached to lift the boat) has a slow leak. I dry the area out and notice it just slowly fills back up again. I have gone weeks before and not had to turn the bilge pump on. This leak allows about a couple gallons of H2O over a 24 hour period. Is this something others have noticed? I have inspected the keel with the exception of the bottom where the boat rests and have not noticed any signs of deterioration or damage. The boat has always been in fresh water. Anyone have input on this? Thanks in advance.
Rocinante33
Contributing Partner
How's the weather?
Rain may run down the mast. I'm not sure where it would accumulate on your boat, but check it out.
Since you just launched, a leaking keel joint is a concern, though. You do have a bolt on keel and not one of the encapsulated Ericson keels, right? If you have the encapsulated version, it is not the keel leaking. Look at all you thru-hulls, too. Make sure there are no drips from them. Take a trip around your boat sticking you head under the cabinetry to look for leaks or drips, too.
Rain may run down the mast. I'm not sure where it would accumulate on your boat, but check it out.
Since you just launched, a leaking keel joint is a concern, though. You do have a bolt on keel and not one of the encapsulated Ericson keels, right? If you have the encapsulated version, it is not the keel leaking. Look at all you thru-hulls, too. Make sure there are no drips from them. Take a trip around your boat sticking you head under the cabinetry to look for leaks or drips, too.
The boat has undergone a major restoration this past winter. It was stored inside heated. Everything, I mean everything that was bolted down on the deck was pulled up, overbored, potted, refilled, redrilled, and rebedded. This included the rub rail. The entire deck is completely clean of any leaks. The chainplates were also, reproofed, by pouring 1/2 raised mold to keep above the deck and cure any chance of leaking. The thru hulls were replaced this winter- brand new and are dry as a bone. Windows were removed and resealed. The keel is welded, not bolted. I have deduced that there is a leak coming from between the weld and where I can see a crack. The picture below will illustrate. The water that comes in is slow, but I would not want to leave the boat unattended for say 2 weeks without an auto bilge hooked up. I know that there was a repair to the keel several years ago. The boat had been hauled out and noted to still have some draining water coming from a penetration on the bottom. This year I had the boat on a trailer and I could not see the last two inches of the keel. When we launched I did not inspect this area, but my wife did slap the last small amount of vc17 to cover it up. I am thinking this could be the only place where the boat could have a problem. I am wondering if any other e27 have had an issue like this before? Also, if the keel is welded and I have a leak is there any chance this could fail and I could lose the keel? I am wondering if where I see the crack if I could try to seal it from the inside for now. That way I don't have to deal with it until the boat gets hauled out in the fall.
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I have an E 27 but am not aware of any welds or keel bolts in the design,the keel is encapsulated lead unless I'm missing something here. I recently hauled out and had to repair some holes in the keel where the previous owner had worn through from repeated groundings,it took about two weeks for the small amount of water to completely drain,I then filled with West epoxy thickened with colloidal silica to a paste and after that dried I applied three layers of woven cloth & resin. The only place water could enter the keel is if the fiber glass encapsulating the lead is delaminated or holed somehow.
What is vc17 ?,if it is some type of sealer or bedding compound , this will not suffice! The last two inches you speak of is most likely where the water is getting in (imho).Either that or the keel was not allowed sufficient time to dry out which may have caused further delamination.
What is vc17 ?,if it is some type of sealer or bedding compound , this will not suffice! The last two inches you speak of is most likely where the water is getting in (imho).Either that or the keel was not allowed sufficient time to dry out which may have caused further delamination.
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VC17 is just antifouling paint. The only area of the keel that could not be painted until it was in the slings. I was pulling the trailer around while she painted the last bit, which is why I did not get a chance to inspect this. How did you get to the bottom area of the keel unless you left it in the slings for 2 weeks which I am sure would be expensive. If the fiberglass is delaminating from the lead, how do you fix it? That is not the same as fixing a soft deck. It does not sound like that is a repairable thing. The only fix would be to repair as you did and just know that you have the de-lamination and live with it. I don't want to haul out now as I just launched. I think this has been going on for a while, I just happened to notice it this season as I very observant of everything I had recently done.
I patched what I could get to further aft under the keel and there was a part under the block which I was suspect of,the day the boat was lifted I had them keep me in the sling for about 5 hrs and sure enough there WAS ANOTHER SMALL GASH directly under the keel which I filled as indicated previously,the epoxy filler kicked off completely about an hour before the boat was splashed.
I somehow suspect that when you do haul out if you allow the keel to drain and dry long enough that the most you will have to do is fill and patch the hole at the bottom,delam will be able to be felt by pushing and knocking on the solid part of the keel,the keel should feel solid as granite if you pound on it with your hand,the keel is also very thick and there should be very little if any space between the lead and the outer fiber glass skin and that would explain why it has not been very noticeable sooner.I think the hole that is open on your boat is where the lead was poured in and then sealed. On my boat that same hole is very solidly sealed obviously by the factory and has a type of transparent plug,I guess as some sort of sight glass.
If keel delamination is found, one way is to drill holes into the keel above the hollow spots to aid in drying out and then inject epoxy in small quantities until the voids are filled,sometimes when the lead is poured voids are somehow not completely filled,any hole no matter how small will slowly let water into these voids through hydrostatic pressure because this is the most deeply submerged part of the boat.You could dive it or have someone dive it and check.You will also notice that the back part of the keel is hollow,I drilled holes in the scraped and chipped part of this 'bilge keel' and let the last bit of water trapped in there drain out because I wasn't sure if somehow water was getting through from the bilge into the solid part of the keel,anyway this turned out to be solid where they are separated inside the boat.At least I got to scrape out 30 plus years of goop!
Let us know how it goes.
I somehow suspect that when you do haul out if you allow the keel to drain and dry long enough that the most you will have to do is fill and patch the hole at the bottom,delam will be able to be felt by pushing and knocking on the solid part of the keel,the keel should feel solid as granite if you pound on it with your hand,the keel is also very thick and there should be very little if any space between the lead and the outer fiber glass skin and that would explain why it has not been very noticeable sooner.I think the hole that is open on your boat is where the lead was poured in and then sealed. On my boat that same hole is very solidly sealed obviously by the factory and has a type of transparent plug,I guess as some sort of sight glass.
If keel delamination is found, one way is to drill holes into the keel above the hollow spots to aid in drying out and then inject epoxy in small quantities until the voids are filled,sometimes when the lead is poured voids are somehow not completely filled,any hole no matter how small will slowly let water into these voids through hydrostatic pressure because this is the most deeply submerged part of the boat.You could dive it or have someone dive it and check.You will also notice that the back part of the keel is hollow,I drilled holes in the scraped and chipped part of this 'bilge keel' and let the last bit of water trapped in there drain out because I wasn't sure if somehow water was getting through from the bilge into the solid part of the keel,anyway this turned out to be solid where they are separated inside the boat.At least I got to scrape out 30 plus years of goop!
Let us know how it goes.
Mine leaks too
For the first two years of ownership of my 1973 E27 I had a dry bilge until one day I noticed a constant presence of extra water. I have the exact same holes approximatley one inch in diameter under the cabin floor as shown above and I noticed that the one just forward of the bilge was full of water and was surrounded by dryness save for one trickle from hole to bilge. Eventually the water flow has taken on a rusty color. I haven't been able to ascertain the nature of my keel connection/construction. I've inspected the bottom while on the hard and even ground off all the paint down to the bare hull last fall but couldn't see any obvious seam much less one that is leaking water. One boatyard said I must have long keel bolts going from bottom of keel to nuts in the sole or threaded plate inlaid. Seems I feel threads when exploring the hole. Initially that's the only explanation that I could think of that could explain water flow from bottom of keel where I can't see. The encapsulated keel sounds like another good possibilty. The aft bitter bottom corner of the keel has been seriously damaged in the past several owners ago and shows rough repairs, and potential place for water entry underneath. How can I tell the difference between an encapsulated vs bolted? Another boatyard told me to assume that I short bolts in a cavity in the keel that was filled with material and glassed over and that I would have to dig in from the side to find it. I understand that hyrdostatic pressure may be the source of inflow rather than an obvious seam or crack but I think either i've got a bad bolt that direly needs replaced or I need to get the boat up in the air so I can get under it to find damage and repair it. drmsucom, I'd love to think that selous is right and all I have to do is repair the bottom and any potential de-lam. Did it work for you?
For the first two years of ownership of my 1973 E27 I had a dry bilge until one day I noticed a constant presence of extra water. I have the exact same holes approximatley one inch in diameter under the cabin floor as shown above and I noticed that the one just forward of the bilge was full of water and was surrounded by dryness save for one trickle from hole to bilge. Eventually the water flow has taken on a rusty color. I haven't been able to ascertain the nature of my keel connection/construction. I've inspected the bottom while on the hard and even ground off all the paint down to the bare hull last fall but couldn't see any obvious seam much less one that is leaking water. One boatyard said I must have long keel bolts going from bottom of keel to nuts in the sole or threaded plate inlaid. Seems I feel threads when exploring the hole. Initially that's the only explanation that I could think of that could explain water flow from bottom of keel where I can't see. The encapsulated keel sounds like another good possibilty. The aft bitter bottom corner of the keel has been seriously damaged in the past several owners ago and shows rough repairs, and potential place for water entry underneath. How can I tell the difference between an encapsulated vs bolted? Another boatyard told me to assume that I short bolts in a cavity in the keel that was filled with material and glassed over and that I would have to dig in from the side to find it. I understand that hyrdostatic pressure may be the source of inflow rather than an obvious seam or crack but I think either i've got a bad bolt that direly needs replaced or I need to get the boat up in the air so I can get under it to find damage and repair it. drmsucom, I'd love to think that selous is right and all I have to do is repair the bottom and any potential de-lam. Did it work for you?
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I have a 73 E27 also . . AFAIK all 27's are encapsulated keel, what look like bolt holes I'm told is where the lead was lowered into the hull (screw eyes removed after perhaps?) The deep section in the aft part of the bilge IS vulnerable! and can leak if damaged, reverse grounding etc. I like it, I hang a bilge pump down there and keep the rest very dry. IF . . .water is truly coming from those"lead lowering" holes . . . it seems the encapsulated keel section must be leaking?! Never heard of this before except above wow! But there are no keel bolts or separate keel section.
That's great information. Thanks! It's been leaking for over two years now and it bugs the heck out of me. I'll have to decide whether Coffeespoons should come out now or just wait until the end of the season. I'll feel much better knowing what I am looking for when it does come out.
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Hi Ashearer,
Welcome. If you have an Ericson 27 you do not have keel bolts. The keel is encapsulated. To be absolutely sure the water is coming from the hole that was used to lower the lead into the keel space I would dry the hole then build a dam around it with something like a wax toilet ring. As I'm sure you know water leaks can be tricky to find. My guess is if it is leaking through that threaded hole the damaged/repaired aft end of the keel is the culprit.
Welcome. If you have an Ericson 27 you do not have keel bolts. The keel is encapsulated. To be absolutely sure the water is coming from the hole that was used to lower the lead into the keel space I would dry the hole then build a dam around it with something like a wax toilet ring. As I'm sure you know water leaks can be tricky to find. My guess is if it is leaking through that threaded hole the damaged/repaired aft end of the keel is the culprit.
What a wonderful idea.
Also since everything was striped off and replaced. maybe it is worth setting up a hose on deck and see if you see any leaks forming. Any one of those fittings or thru bolts may not have gotten enough sealer/caulk.
On my e 27 I had a mysterious leak. I would find water collected but I could not see the trail of where it was coming from. By the time I was down on the boat the trail was dry but there was some water left pooled (in my case) in the head.
It took a trip down to the boat while it was raining (yes it does rain on occasion in southern California) and I found that the drip was coming thru where a chain plate goes thru the deck. The chain plate was in fine condition I added some new caulk under the trim piece and the leak was gone.
VINEYARDVIKING
Junior Member
E27 ? Keel leak?
IF THE KEELS "Aft area" was damaged , Maybe, but most of the water I see in the E27 I help maintain on is from shaft seal for the a4
If you have sound keel ,you should be able to seal it from outside , but sealing a leak like that from inside is at best a temporary measure.
dry the heck out of it and sit an watch.if its 2gal day you should be able to spot its general origin .
is it salty , is it fresh? etc.
that aft bilge is pretty deep on e27 , does it fill before the fwd access bilge area? at same pace,? sloweer? or not at all?
this is assuming you have tripple checked all the obvious through hulls, clamps,valves,hoses, sensors/transduces, deckk fittings, head connectiosn,mast step, shaft log seal,chainplates,stanchions etc.
good luck and let us know casue & solution.
IF THE KEELS "Aft area" was damaged , Maybe, but most of the water I see in the E27 I help maintain on is from shaft seal for the a4
If you have sound keel ,you should be able to seal it from outside , but sealing a leak like that from inside is at best a temporary measure.
dry the heck out of it and sit an watch.if its 2gal day you should be able to spot its general origin .
is it salty , is it fresh? etc.
that aft bilge is pretty deep on e27 , does it fill before the fwd access bilge area? at same pace,? sloweer? or not at all?
this is assuming you have tripple checked all the obvious through hulls, clamps,valves,hoses, sensors/transduces, deckk fittings, head connectiosn,mast step, shaft log seal,chainplates,stanchions etc.
good luck and let us know casue & solution.