PossibleProblems to look for in E 31 Independence

Greetings,

Not to assume that the Ericson 31 Independence have lot of problems,

I think all used sailboats that are reaching 30 plus years old develop problems.

I'd like to hear from E 31 owners what I should look for in searching for a late '70's

E 31 to purchase. I have owned 3 Ericsons over the past 30 years and have

always thought the E 31 would be a great couples cruising sailboat. So what are

the weak spots in this design?

Phil

Things to look for in an E31.

Phil, I wouldn't necessarily call them weak spots but things to be aware of when looking at an E31 are as follows: The cutter rigged E31 can have, 1. de-lamination in the six foot long Sitka spruce bow sprit, mainly the result of fresh water entering the laminates in the area of the bronze kranze iron (the thing the head, bob and whisker stays attach to) that migrates aft to around the mid length of the sprit where it can begin to get dry rot. There can be, 2. water leaks at the base of the hand holds on the cabin top as well as from any other deck hole. Proof of hand hold leaks can be confirmed from below where water drips hit the vinyl headliner and run to the edges where it's stapled to the vertical teak ply that surrounds the port lights. Vertical black stains will appear, the result of rusting staples. Rock the rudder back and forth at the wheel and listen for, 3. rudder clunk caused by the 1" diameter bronze rudder shaft slopping around in the bronze rudder shoe, the result of years of wear to these relatively soft metals. Dry rot in the sprit is a biggie and can only really be dealt by replacing the sprit. The majority of owners who have done this used laminated teak which pretty much solves the problem forever. There are a handful who have replaced with Sitka spruce and have probably gone to great lengths to seal the sprit at the iron. Handholds simply have to be removed from below and the mounting holes drilled out and filled with epoxy that's redrilled to 1/4" for the fasteners and modern bedding applied before reassembly. The same holds for all cab or deck leaks. There are several methods to use for rudder clunk from shimming with Teflon to all out restoring the bronze to it's original 1" diameter involving machining and rudder pin rod replacement. Please feel free to contact me any time you think I can be of help regarding anything about the E31. Hope this helps, Glyn Judson, E31 hull #55, Marina del Rey, CA. glynjudson@roadrunner.com, Home 310.453.1892

Glyn,

I posted this question on the E31 webpage, but I can't always get it to connect. I am having my Ericson hauled out next month, and wanted to ask about any issues common to the E31 I should look into to while she is out of the water getting her bottom painted.

We've had "Lively" for about five years now, no major issues to speak of, and she's been a lot of fun.

Thanks,
Steve

Hauling Lively.

Steve, Contact me at glynjudson@roadrunner.com or by phone at 310.453.1892, let's chat.

I'm not sure if I'd say it's a problem area, but I did rebuild my rudder due to water intrusion, which seems to have originated at the quadrant bolts. I think Glyn may have had a similar problem, but I don't know if others have or not. You can check out my repair from my projects page here:

http://home.comcast.net/~independence31/rudder/rudder-intro.html

The one thing you must never do, never, is remove the oven... or the keel falls off.


This is called "Dog Gone" good advice!


LB

Watch it Loren!! Remember, you're the straight man, I'm the one to get the laughs. All things considered, yours was a timely remark because I returned my 18-month-old chocolate Lab to Guide Dogs of America for six months of harness training yesterday and then to become the eyes for a blind person. The house is veeery quite today and I don't like it at all. Had I not returned Jack yesterday, he, Marilyn and I would have gone sailing on our Ericson sailboat (sailing content). ; - ) Glyn

Glyn

I hope you still have your new dog (the black one)?

Loren Beach said:

The one thing you must never do, never, is remove the oven... or the keel falls off.


This is called "Dog Gone" good advice!


LB

Click to expand...

Is it OK to replace it with an non OEM oven? Wondering if my Origo upgrade puts me at risk.....

Glyn Judson said:

Phil, I wouldn't necessarily call them weak spots but things to be aware of when looking at an E31 are as follows: The cutter rigged E31 can have, 1. de-lamination in the six foot long Sitka spruce bow sprit, mainly the result of fresh water entering the laminates in the area of the bronze kranze iron (the thing the head, bob and whisker stays attach to) that migrates aft to around the mid length of the sprit where it can begin to get dry rot. There can be, 2. water leaks at the base of the hand holds on the cabin top as well as from any other deck hole. Proof of hand hold leaks can be confirmed from below where water drips hit the vinyl headliner and run to the edges where it's stapled to the vertical teak ply that surrounds the port lights. Vertical black stains will appear, the result of rusting staples. Rock the rudder back and forth at the wheel and listen for, 3. rudder clunk caused by the 1" diameter bronze rudder shaft slopping around in the bronze rudder shoe, the result of years of wear to these relatively soft metals. Dry rot in the sprit is a biggie and can only really be dealt by replacing the sprit. The majority of owners who have done this used laminated teak which pretty much solves the problem forever. There are a handful who have replaced with Sitka spruce and have probably gone to great lengths to seal the sprit at the iron. Handholds simply have to be removed from below and the mounting holes drilled out and filled with epoxy that's redrilled to 1/4" for the fasteners and modern bedding applied before reassembly. The same holds for all cab or deck leaks. There are several methods to use for rudder clunk from shimming with Teflon to all out restoring the bronze to it's original 1" diameter involving machining and rudder pin rod replacement. Please feel free to contact me any time you think I can be of help regarding anything about the E31. Hope this helps, Glyn Judson, E31 hull #55, Marina del Rey, CA. glynjudson@roadrunner.com, Home 310.453.1892

Click to expand...

Glyn,

What would be your best guess as to the source of water intrusion behind the mirror in the head during a rainstorm? I don't know if the mast step can leak, or maybe the stainless eye that comes out of the deck and attaches the turning block for the main halyard... I'm not too worried about it though. If the boat is going to leak, leaking into the head is the best possible place!

-Rich

Water behind the mirror.

Rich, First of all, I know your boat very well, having spent many an hour working on her three owners back. I might add that your bowsprit is laminated teak done by him, a beautiful job indeed especially considering that it was his FIRST attempt at working with wood ever. As with a previous post in this thread, I'm going to say that there's a leak from above somewhere that's hitting the vinyl headliner and making it's way to the aft bulkhead in the head and running down behind the mirror. Look for signs of water intrusion beneath the cabin top handhold loops that attach in the overhead in the head area. Also don't rule out the mast base fasteners, etc. To possibly confirm the latter, there's a chance that the plywood beneath the mast base has softened as evidenced by a depression around it as seen from on deck. That's not to say that it isn't the area of the leak just because there isn't a leak though. If it were me, I'd start by pulling the headliner down above the mirror and in line where you see the water track. Chances are that you'll see evidence of water on the top side of the vinyl that can be traced to a specific handhold fastener or other through deck piece of hardware fastener. Think about it a minute and you'll come to the same conclusion that a leak from somewhere above is the only answer. The thing that throws folks off the trail is that a water leak can migrate across the waterproof headliner only to pop out a distance from the source. If you're hesitant to take on this task because of not having any way to reattach the headliner, you're more than welcome to borrow my upholsterers stapler, a supply of stainless staples and a pancake compressor with hose, gratis. I'm just down the road from you a few miles in Santa Monica. Hope this helps, Glyn

Glyn Judson said:

Rich, First of all, I know your boat very well, having spent many an hour working on her three owners back. I might add that your bowsprit is laminated teak done by him, a beautiful job indeed especially considering that it was his FIRST attempt at working with wood ever. As with a previous post in this thread, I'm going to say that there's a leak from above somewhere that's hitting the vinyl headliner and making it's way to the aft bulkhead in the head and running down behind the mirror. Look for signs of water intrusion beneath the cabin top handhold loops that attach in the overhead in the head area. Also don't rule out the mast base fasteners, etc. To possibly confirm the latter, there's a chance that the plywood beneath the mast base has softened as evidenced by a depression around it as seen from on deck. That's not to say that it isn't the area of the leak just because there isn't a leak though. If it were me, I'd start by pulling the headliner down above the mirror and in line where you see the water track. Chances are that you'll see evidence of water on the top side of the vinyl that can be traced to a specific handhold fastener or other through deck piece of hardware fastener. Think about it a minute and you'll come to the same conclusion that a leak from somewhere above is the only answer. The thing that throws folks off the trail is that a water leak can migrate across the waterproof headliner only to pop out a distance from the source. If you're hesitant to take on this task because of not having any way to reattach the headliner, you're more than welcome to borrow my upholsterers stapler, a supply of stainless staples and a pancake compressor with hose, gratis. I'm just down the road from you a few miles in Santa Monica. Hope this helps, Glyn

Click to expand...

Definitely helps, thanks! I had the headliner in the cabin area unzipped last week to bolt in part of my slab reefing system, and everything on that side was dry, so it has to be on the head side of the buklhead.

Water Behind the Mirror

I had a similar problem on my boat. Does your boat have a dorade? If so you may want to look at the pipe that goes through the deck from your dorade to the inside of the cabin. The pipe on my boat was made of PVC. After 20 some years the seal broke between the PVC pipe and the glass deck. The PO simply put more and more silicon on the seal. I eventually replaced the PVC pipe with a glass pipe and then glassed it in. No seal problems anymore. Hope this helps.

Brian
E31 C hull #2

larossa said:

I had a similar problem on my boat. Does your boat have a dorade? If so you may want to look at the pipe that goes through the deck from your dorade to the inside of the cabin. The pipe on my boat was made of PVC. After 20 some years the seal broke between the PVC pipe and the glass deck. The PO simply put more and more silicon on the seal. I eventually replaced the PVC pipe with a glass pipe and then glassed it in. No seal problems anymore. Hope this helps.

Brian
E31 C hull #2

Click to expand...

Nope, not up there.

Independence 31 Blessings

I have a leak issue but further aft, I suspect primarily the Seahood fasteners. I'm going to drop the Vinyl headliner for a new deckhead finish and while thats' gutted out all the cabintop fasteners will be rebedded.
A couple of issues come to mind specific to the Independence 31;
And vs the the Cruising 31, where the 1/4 berth was eliminated in favor of a Nav. Station, there was no longer ready access to the underpinnings of the cockpit. Specifically the Cockpit scupper Drain thruhulls.
I was having "unexplained water-in-the-Bilge" issues. The Scupper drains were my first suspicion, I had done as recommended by Glyn and installed a floor deck hatch in the cockpit. With the now-proper access I proceeded to replace all the hosing associated with those drains. In the process, when intending to exercise the two black "Marlon" reinforced plastic thruhull valves, the first one I addressed, with minimal force, the handle sheared off! I was out of the water at this point but how alarming a thought is that. Without the deck hatch access, imagine discovering an apparent flow of water from back aft, struggling over top of the Aux. one discovers disloged hoses and has a Thruhull valve shear off in your hand!
I would suspect due to the inaccessability issue, those thruhulls on LAYLAH had not been touched in 25 years. Replaced the Valves, the pair of them and moved on.
Next time there was an excessive amount of water (in a short time) in the Bilge I opened said hatch while under way, dropped down in with a flashlight and spied a trickle coming down the belly of the hull from behind the Helm Seat. We were on a port tack at the time with a following sea and when I opened the hinged seat/ hatch at the Helm I firstly noted the amount of water that free floods in around the quadrant. Secondly, upon closer examination I could see some flexing between the floor and the side panel of that Quadrant Box. The FG Tape/ Tabbing had delaminated and water was flowing in as the Steering/ sail/ rigging loads flexed the boat.
Simple fix then, remove paint, dress off/ add some surface texture with a grinder and then go to it with epoxy and added layers of Fiberglass cloth.
I have heard of this Quadrant Box issue arising on at least several other boats in the Ericson 31 Fleet, so look for that one.
The Deck Hatch which I've seen advertized "retail List" for $800. I got mine from Hamilton Marine for around $300. several years ago and had it powder coated. It will likeky outlive the Boat.
You can catch a glimpse of it in this Image;

<img src="http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2006-1/1138028/Hull%20_63%2C%20BinnacleR.JPG">

Concerning your supposition that the I 31 is a great Couples' Cruising Boat, you're absolutely spot on. Best of luck finding yours.

I'm going to try to revive this thread. I'm looking at a C 31 and am very interested in hearing more about what I should look for while going through her. This will be my first big boat, and she is for sale for what I think is a very good price. (having not seen it in person yet)

C31 questions.

Dear friend, Can you tel me the hull number or name of the boat? I might be able to help and certainly others reading here can or call me at home, 310.453.1892. I maintain a list of almost every E31 laid up and might be able to share what I know with you. Cheers, Glyn Judson, E31 hull #55, Marine del Rey CA

Hi Glyn. I haven't seen her yet, and I'm not sure of the name or hull yet.

Glyn! I went to look at her today. Her name is now Tortuga, but there was another name I couldn't make out (maybe Tai Pan?) that was etched into the paint just barely. She has a big oil leak that I wasn't able to see the source of without really climbing into it. If I decide I really want the boat, I'll dig deeper. Chain plates all look ok. The plates for the back stays are too hard to see without also crawling into her. BUT... I did see some spray foam that I'm wondering if you might guess why it's there. Looks like there used to be a hose? Can't tell. Theres also some poor repairs to paint and parts of the hull.

More pictures