tooblaaave
Member I
I have a 1978 E27, So my engine is getting OLD. It is in need of coastly repair. is it possible to pull the yanmar 1 lunger and use an out board. Or sell the boat. Thoughts please thanx Nic
E27 inboard to outboard
- Thread starter tooblaaave
- Start date
Annapolis E-27
Member III
I also have a 1978 E-27 with a YSB-8. Don't know about converting to an outboard but I don't think this old tractor is engine is getting old, it is just getting broken in.
What is the costly repair you need?
I believe Bacon's has one (YSB8) running ready to drop in for way less money than you'll spend on an outboard. Here's a link to their site - you'll need to call as the engine isn't listed:
http://www.baconsails.com/
Also, at the risk of setting off a religion debate, personally, by the time your boat is 27 feet long, I think you're going the wrong direction to cut out the transom and put an outboard on it. I know lots of people do this, but I think you cut your resale market way down taking a boat that had an inboard originally and cutting it up to put an outboard on. For me, one of the happiest days on my prior E-27 was when I finished getting rid of the outboard someone had placed on her transom and had her back running on an inboard as she came from the factory.
just my .02
I believe Bacon's has one (YSB8) running ready to drop in for way less money than you'll spend on an outboard. Here's a link to their site - you'll need to call as the engine isn't listed:
http://www.baconsails.com/
Also, at the risk of setting off a religion debate, personally, by the time your boat is 27 feet long, I think you're going the wrong direction to cut out the transom and put an outboard on it. I know lots of people do this, but I think you cut your resale market way down taking a boat that had an inboard originally and cutting it up to put an outboard on. For me, one of the happiest days on my prior E-27 was when I finished getting rid of the outboard someone had placed on her transom and had her back running on an inboard as she came from the factory.
just my .02
Back and Forth
Well, I have gone back and forth with the whole inboard, outboard thing. Several things finally swayed me in the direction of cutting out the transom:
First, many of the E27s came that way from the factory, and the owners of these boats seem to be happy with the performance. And I was basically re-constructing large portions of the boat already, so this wasn't a big deal in terms of additional work, materials, etc. (and I discovered a large amount of water in the transom which was freezing and thawing and tearing the transom apart!)
Second, outboard systems are less complex (not the outboard itself necessarily, but exhaust, fuel, electrical, mounting, drive systems etc.). I like the fact that when something fails on the engine I can simply unbolt the motor and take it home and work on it instead of contorting myself in a small, hot and damp space.
Third, I can carry a small backup motor in the boat, ready to bolt on if the primary fails.
And fourth, cost. To fix up my A4 (without a full rebuild), would cost approximately $2k. And I would still have an un-rebuilt A4. Yes I might be able to find a used diesel for around the same amount. But I would still have to put another few thousand into it in the form of controls, exhaust, mounting system, prop and shaft, etc. I can get a good used outboard for well under $2k.
Finally, performance. I sail on a river which rarely sees large waves, and it will be rare that I actually need to motor for long periods of time. Also, I am planning to be out more in the cooler months, and having my kids be able to sit in the cabin without a deafening roar from the inboard (and worrying about CO poisoning), will be really nice!
So for me, it seems like the correct decision. I realize this is not the case for many (if not most) other sailboat owners. Hopefully I won't regret it. And if I do, I'm not going to admit it!
Doug
Well, I have gone back and forth with the whole inboard, outboard thing. Several things finally swayed me in the direction of cutting out the transom:
First, many of the E27s came that way from the factory, and the owners of these boats seem to be happy with the performance. And I was basically re-constructing large portions of the boat already, so this wasn't a big deal in terms of additional work, materials, etc. (and I discovered a large amount of water in the transom which was freezing and thawing and tearing the transom apart!)
Second, outboard systems are less complex (not the outboard itself necessarily, but exhaust, fuel, electrical, mounting, drive systems etc.). I like the fact that when something fails on the engine I can simply unbolt the motor and take it home and work on it instead of contorting myself in a small, hot and damp space.
Third, I can carry a small backup motor in the boat, ready to bolt on if the primary fails.
And fourth, cost. To fix up my A4 (without a full rebuild), would cost approximately $2k. And I would still have an un-rebuilt A4. Yes I might be able to find a used diesel for around the same amount. But I would still have to put another few thousand into it in the form of controls, exhaust, mounting system, prop and shaft, etc. I can get a good used outboard for well under $2k.
Finally, performance. I sail on a river which rarely sees large waves, and it will be rare that I actually need to motor for long periods of time. Also, I am planning to be out more in the cooler months, and having my kids be able to sit in the cabin without a deafening roar from the inboard (and worrying about CO poisoning), will be really nice!
So for me, it seems like the correct decision. I realize this is not the case for many (if not most) other sailboat owners. Hopefully I won't regret it. And if I do, I'm not going to admit it!
Doug
More Input, albeit not requested...
Doug,
I like your reasoned approach, in general. And I agree with most of your conclusions.
Just be careful about drawing a conclusion based on... inadequate information...
Unlike smaller or lighter-built trailer sailers from the 70's, your E-27 is designed for weeks of summer cruising -- down the river to Astoria and even up the WA coast to Puget Sound and the San Juans/Gulf Islands. It is designed for bigger seas and coastal passages.
As soon as you go down-river a ways you will transit narrow channels like the infamous passage around Cape Horn on the way into Cathlamet where an outboard may spend too much time out of water over-reving. Ditto the narrow ship channel from Harrington Point down to Tongue Pt in the afternoon 30 kt winds.
Not every trip will be rough, but on one memorable cruise down below Harrington Pt some other boaters in our group told us they could see the front of our keel on the Olson at times.
As I recall, every boat got a lot of water on deck that afternoon.
A short steep chop will really get your boat hobby-horsing. And, in turn, that will pull that outboard prop out. You may find yourself slamming to a near-halt.
If you do go with an outboard, get a "Hi Thrust" Yamaha or Honda 10 hp with the extra-long shaft and the power tilt. Be prepared to go without much of the electrical generation that you would take for granted with the 50 amp alternator on an inboard, too.
We used a big "hi thrust" Yamaha for a decade on our prior 26 footer, and would agree that it is easier to remove it for annual servicing and take it in to the shop.
Regarding outboards, read the specs carefully. Absent any change, only Yamaha actually has a 3 to 1 gear ratio. All the others (used to) have a two to one which is fine for planning hulls and inappropriate for your displacement hull (no matter what the sales person tells you).
Regards,
Loren
Doug,
I like your reasoned approach, in general. And I agree with most of your conclusions.
Just be careful about drawing a conclusion based on... inadequate information...
Unlike smaller or lighter-built trailer sailers from the 70's, your E-27 is designed for weeks of summer cruising -- down the river to Astoria and even up the WA coast to Puget Sound and the San Juans/Gulf Islands. It is designed for bigger seas and coastal passages.
As soon as you go down-river a ways you will transit narrow channels like the infamous passage around Cape Horn on the way into Cathlamet where an outboard may spend too much time out of water over-reving. Ditto the narrow ship channel from Harrington Point down to Tongue Pt in the afternoon 30 kt winds.
Not every trip will be rough, but on one memorable cruise down below Harrington Pt some other boaters in our group told us they could see the front of our keel on the Olson at times.
As I recall, every boat got a lot of water on deck that afternoon.
A short steep chop will really get your boat hobby-horsing. And, in turn, that will pull that outboard prop out. You may find yourself slamming to a near-halt.
If you do go with an outboard, get a "Hi Thrust" Yamaha or Honda 10 hp with the extra-long shaft and the power tilt. Be prepared to go without much of the electrical generation that you would take for granted with the 50 amp alternator on an inboard, too.
We used a big "hi thrust" Yamaha for a decade on our prior 26 footer, and would agree that it is easier to remove it for annual servicing and take it in to the shop.
Regarding outboards, read the specs carefully. Absent any change, only Yamaha actually has a 3 to 1 gear ratio. All the others (used to) have a two to one which is fine for planning hulls and inappropriate for your displacement hull (no matter what the sales person tells you).
Regards,
Loren
Last edited:
bayhoss
Member III
inboard / outboard
Let me say this; after years and years of having sailboats with outboards one of the firm musts for my new boat was an inboard engine. After trying to make way aginst some real hard weather on the Chesapeake and having that outboard prop out the water more than in the water the decision was finial. Inboard engines also give weight to the lower centerline of a boat and not to the higher centerline or one side. Having the weight higher and/or to one side makes a difference (I feel) in handling. After having had both, I would spend the money on my inboard.
Best,
Frank
E28+ Valinor
Let me say this; after years and years of having sailboats with outboards one of the firm musts for my new boat was an inboard engine. After trying to make way aginst some real hard weather on the Chesapeake and having that outboard prop out the water more than in the water the decision was finial. Inboard engines also give weight to the lower centerline of a boat and not to the higher centerline or one side. Having the weight higher and/or to one side makes a difference (I feel) in handling. After having had both, I would spend the money on my inboard.
Best,
Frank
E28+ Valinor
Thanks for the advice Loren. Based on some of your earlier posts and my own research I have already been on the prowl for a reasonably priced used Yamaha extra long shaft 9.9 hi-thrust. Not too many out there for sale, reasonably priced or otherwise. But I have awhile until I actually need it. And you are right, there is a lot I don't yet know about the Columbia other than right around Portland, but I'll just have to figure it out with whatever motor I end up with. I am working with the principle of installing systems designed primarily for the typical sailing I envision, with the thought that this will be too little for some situations, and too much for some others. I am sure I will realize some of the drawbacks of this system rather quickly, but I guess that is part of the adventure! And perhaps why people get bigger and/or better boats...
Emerald, I agree in principal that one shouldn't reduce the value of a boat by such drastic actions as cutting out the transom, however in this case the value of the boat was already so low that almost anything I do to improve it will significantly increase the value! I took this boat on as a project boat, and although it has turned into more of a project the further I got into it, I am not afraid to do things to it that I think will be useful to me and not necessarily to future owners (but not to the point of being ridiculous). I have never expected perfection from this boat, since anything will be better than what I started with. The hull was the only thing in decent condition on the boat. Everything else needed replacement or major repair. So the ultimate goal is to have something that is easy and enjoyable for me and my family to use and will enable me to go sailing as much as possible. As of now this fits the bill.
I also want to reiterate that I never would have considered this had the cutout not been a factory option. Both from a structural or a design standpoint. I am not generally in the habit of re-engineering things that could potentially cause major damage and/or loss of life and limb, although I think I am getting close here. Now, hopefully Martin won't tell me that the Ericson marketing folks foisted this particular design element on the boat and Mr. King was against it...
I didn't really mean to set off this debate again here, but I do enjoy hearing everyone's perspective on this. Valid points, all.
Doug
Emerald, I agree in principal that one shouldn't reduce the value of a boat by such drastic actions as cutting out the transom, however in this case the value of the boat was already so low that almost anything I do to improve it will significantly increase the value! I took this boat on as a project boat, and although it has turned into more of a project the further I got into it, I am not afraid to do things to it that I think will be useful to me and not necessarily to future owners (but not to the point of being ridiculous). I have never expected perfection from this boat, since anything will be better than what I started with. The hull was the only thing in decent condition on the boat. Everything else needed replacement or major repair. So the ultimate goal is to have something that is easy and enjoyable for me and my family to use and will enable me to go sailing as much as possible. As of now this fits the bill.
I also want to reiterate that I never would have considered this had the cutout not been a factory option. Both from a structural or a design standpoint. I am not generally in the habit of re-engineering things that could potentially cause major damage and/or loss of life and limb, although I think I am getting close here. Now, hopefully Martin won't tell me that the Ericson marketing folks foisted this particular design element on the boat and Mr. King was against it...
I didn't really mean to set off this debate again here, but I do enjoy hearing everyone's perspective on this. Valid points, all.
Doug
tooblaaave
Member I
well thanx every body, after all my hysteria, It turns out I over reacted like usuall to a problem. I had someone with real knowledge come out.
All is well. A little tweeking and things are fine in wonderland again
All is well. A little tweeking and things are fine in wonderland again
tooblaaave
Member I
It was a back pressure issue. we cleaned out the exhust, that simple really. Ho yeah new fuel filter. Duh