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In Boom Mainsail Furling

newpbs

Member III
Is a furled mainsail (boom style) any good? I mean, does it sail well and it it worth the extra trouble and expense to get one? Will the sail hold a good shape when it is furled on the boom? What about battens?

I have a 1988 32-200 that is due for a new main sail. I believe that I am running the original main, so it is well over due. I would like to know about the pros and cons of main sail furling, especially those that are furled in the boom. Are people happy with the in boom systems that they have? Would you go out of your way to have a main sail furling system on your boat?

I am a cruising sailor. I do not race, but I have been tempted to seek out a racing group to join. How does furling my main fit into racing? I know that my Ericson is a little tender and she likes to stand up. Reefing seems to be quite necessary in order to keep the boat moving at the best pace possible and with a reasonable amount of weather helm.

Would it be possible to purchase a used boom and modify it to fit my 32? How would I go about locating such a used piece of equipment?

Thanks for your help in advance. I'm sure that the folks in this site will have some insight in this subject.

Paul
 

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Patti Wood

Member I
Main furler

Paul,

My boat (e27) had an in-boom main furler when I purchased. The system never worked well, and after trying everything for 3 years, I finally gave up and converted back to the traditional, flaked-on-boom method. This was an older product, one of the first available in the marketplace. It was a byatch to use. Always getting bunched up or stuck in the track, and it was very slow, too. You need to be able to yank your sail down in a hurry if you have to, and with the roller, that's impossible. However, since you asked, once the sail was up and drawing, sail shape was fine, probably better than an in-mast, or aft-of-mast, roller. Probably woudn't effect your speed in a race, since you would have set the main way before crossing the starting line. Only problem would be getting that sucker down fast enough to get docked for the party afterwards!

This is going to be expensive, too. You'll need a new boom, new sail, possibly some mods to your mast, etc. My guestimate would be...well, maybe up to 10k. If you're looking for convenience, think about some sort of jiffy reefing system, and/or an autopilot. Just installed one for around $1200. Best modification I've made. Otto doesn't argue or drink much beer.
 

Guy Stevens

Moderator
Moderator
What problem are you trying to solve

There are issues with all of the window shade systems for mainsail furling.

Probably the best out there is the leisure furl has the least issues of those that I have installed and had clients with.

However it is going to run you about 10K by the time that you are done installing it on your boat, maybe even a little more. Also they do not have the ability to adjust sail shape as well as the boom and sail combination that you have now. There are a lot of limits on what any of them can do, and still roll up.

When something goes wrong it goes really wrong.

The real question is what problem are you trying to solve?

If the issue is that it takes to long or is too hard to reef your boat, then those are issues that can be addressed in a number of ways.

Making the boat so that main sail handling is easy, and quick is a function of setting the boat up right for the users of the boat. Most boats mainsail handling gear are not well set up.

WELL DESIGNED lazy jacks, A tides Marine Strong track, and a self tailing winch at the mast for the main halyard generally resolve most issues. Other things that may be needed are a good set of rams horns, and stainless steel rings and webbing through each of the reef points.

Generally finding a used in the boom furling unit is finding something that didn't work for the previous owner. Why try to find and install something that someone else could not get to work?

Directions for reefing on Aiki (My personal and test boat).
1> Walk forward to the mast
2> Deploy Lazy jacks if tucking in the first reef. (this involves tightening two lines one each side of the mast).
3> Release rope clutch on main halyard until main halyard is level with lower mark on main halyard corresponding to the reef that you wish to use.
4> Drop the ring for that reef over the rams horn.
5> Tighten halyard to the upper mark for the reef that you wish to use.
6> Tighten corresponding reef line for the leach
7> Walk back to the cockpit.

It takes anyone on the crew including one of the crew who is 5 feet 1/8 inches tall and about 90 lbs less time to reef than it did for you to read the directions, or me to tell you how to do it. The whole process takes maybe a minute.
 
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newpbs

Member III
Thanks for the Input

Thanks for the input regarding mainsail furling. I do not have any problems with furling the main the way things are. I was hoping that there was a furling system out there that was both competent and reasonable in price (okay, I was dreaming).

Anyway, it sounds like the ability the furl and store that main sail in a reasonable manner just has not been invented yet. I'd really like to deal with the main sail as easily as I handle the head sail.

Thanks again.

Paul
 

ted_reshetiloff

Contributing Partner
Guy is spot on here but I would offer that a Liesure Furl unit for the E-32 should not run you more than $7k and could possibly be done for $5k in this economy. The important thing with liesure furl or even the profurl unit which is almost comparable is that it is installed properly. The angle of the boom to the mast is very critical or the sail will not roll properly. If it were me on a 32 I would go with Strong Track and a lazy jack system. I have lazy jacks made from 1/8" dyneema with no metal fittings that run inside the mast spliced together to a single control line. This allows them to be hooked around the reef hooks and stowed after use. The dont make any noise on the mast and I dont need a complicated mainsail cover. I can give you more detail on the lazy jacks if you p-mail me.
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
EZ Jax?

Ted, any reason not to go with the EZ-Jax system? Several of my friends have this and it seems to work really well. Your own version gets away from the ss rings, though. How did you account for the need to have a ring, block or somesuch for the lines to slide thru?
Since these systems are often run thru a set of cheek blocks just under or near the lower spreader, how did you design and implement an internal way to feed the lines?
Any photos to share?
Thanks,
Loren
 

rwthomas1

Sustaining Partner
I have lazy jacks made from 1/8" dyneema with no metal fittings that run inside the mast spliced together to a single control line. This allows them to be hooked around the reef hooks and stowed after use. The dont make any noise on the mast and I dont need a complicated mainsail cover./QUOTE]

Okay, now I am green with envy! How'd you get the jacks inside the mast! Mine whack the mast and drive me a bit insane. Lazy jacks work well but they can be a pain. All that furling mast stuff is "dock jewelery", I'll never give up my full batten main. Too much fun blowing past those roach-less "boatabago's" And as tempting as a furling boom is it just looks like lots more maintenance. RT
 

Spirit Moon

Member II
Leisure Furl in an E-38

My Leisure Furl was installed by the previous owner who did a complete refurb. I can't speak to the price but I can speak to having sailed out of Sidney BC year round most weekends and a good month or more each summer. I can't say enought about the system. Hoisting, furling (without having to get directly on the wind) and infinite reefing possibilities have really changed the way we sail and the conditions we sail in. By the way the sail is fully battened and loose footed the aft quarter of the sail so trim is very good. While the E 38 can be a bit tender I have found the ability to balance the boat to really kick up the handling ability and enjoyment for me and my wife. The previous owner had her up to Alaska and back and down the west side of Vancouver Island a couple of times. I've crewed on a friends boat with the same system from Sidney to San Francisco in mid April of 2007. Plenty of wind and seas but no issues in sail management and performance for cruising. I have also crewed on boats with in mast furling. Every single time an issue cropped up at least once during the voyage. I'm guessing the in boom system is pricey because you also need a sold vang on top of everything else.

Frank
SV Spirit Moon
 
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ted_reshetiloff

Contributing Partner
See my separate post on the lazy jack system, it is basically guys system led internal with no rings. The 1/8" dyneema is very slippery stuff and simple eye splices allow for no rings or thimbles. To lead the system inside the mast we had to get both sides led through their holes and back out the bottom. They were then spliced together and to the salsa control line before being pulled back inside and up the mast. It took a little back and forth and some measuring to get the lenghts right. IIRC I was selling this system to customers complete for boats 35-45' for about $700 installed. A little cheaper for smaller boats cause you only need 2 legs.

P.S. Leisurefurls do kick ass for sure. The only mainsail furling system I would ever consider, although the Profurl is close. In mast is bogus for all the reasons detailed above. Dutchmans are fine too, I just dont like all the strings and the need for a toppinglift, just my personal taste.
 
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Steve Swann

Member III
Schaefer?

I have a fairly new Schaefer in boom furling on my new 47' boat. I like it and it has remained trouble-free. There is a fixed vang that primarily keeps the boom:mast angle perfect so the sail rolls up without creeping fore or aft. But I have been careful with our system, I keep it lubricated and maintained, and had no problems. Overall, I really like the concept.

Yes, the commercially available in-boom furling is expensive. But I think it is here to stay and inevitably, the technology and engineering on these systems will continually improve over time. It will be fun to watch!

Con's:
1) I don't like all the weight in this boom so preventers are needed to keep the thing from swinging hard side-to-side in wave action when the sail is stowed.
2) The system is slow, as someone previously posted, but we have electric winches which help immensely.
3) The downhaul line appears to be a bit light duty for some of the forces that can be generated (turning into the wind to hoist or furl is always best), but this is being replaced this fall.
4) Perfect alignment and adjustments are mandatory for it to work well.
5) Nearly impossible to change mainsail to another mainsail away from the dock or yard!
6) The booms are big and hollow. I am not totally convinced of the inherent strength of these sections. This is just an observation and personal opinion.

Pro's:
Main is infinitely reef-able.
Clean installation without lazyjacks, tensioning lines, grommet holes, reef lines, etc. (I LIKE clean rigs)
Keeps lines of the deck and away from underfoot. (I LIKE clean decks)
No chafe to speak of.
Quiet - no slatting when stowed.

Having said all this, there is a Catalina in our Sailing Association whose owner built a gooseneck that spins and he modified a sail to roll up on the outside of the boom. Seems pretty simple and straightforward. Maybe a clever poor-mans solution for a cruising boat???

I am certainly not anywhere near the expert that some of the others are who have written in this post, but I did want to defend my Schaefer! I have sailed 4,500 miles, mostly offshore, this year alone, and I am beginning to have some opinions, too! :egrin: I have learned that clean, unobstructed decks and a tidy rig are something that I will strive to maintain on my boats. I think you should pursue a boom furling system for your Ericson 32.


Steve Swann
Meridian, ID
 

sailingdeacon

Member III
how about outside the mast furling?

At age 72 on my 87 E34, with no more plans for racing and an old mainsail, I am interested in mainsail furling to make sailing safer and easier for another 10 years (!!) of NC and MD sound sailing. I now have a fully battened mainsail with the dutchman system - requiring me to go forward, remove the cover, begin the hoist, then back to the cockpit to wench it up. Same thing for reefing and dropping the main. I'd like to avoid going forward at all. I still want to "go fast" though.

I reviewed the Leisurefurl boom furling video at http://www.forespar.com/leisurefurl/videos.html and I must admit it is trickier than I feel good about. Plus clearly an expensive electric wench is a key for ease of use (and trusting an eyeball for the proper horizontal alignment in dropping the sail is another concern.) Perhaps a solid vang would suffice but they did not mention it and I wonder about the strength of the large thinner boom) .

A local trusted sailmaker has installed a number of outside the mast main furlers. I am getting a bid but I feel sure the cost will be less than boom furlers. It should be much easier to unfurl/furl based on experience with a jib furler. No topping lift and I continue to have my solid vang. He has been building blade furlers with leach battens on the same angel of the forestay, and he does a similar installation on the furling main.

Seems to me the remaining problem with outside the mast is the weight higher up and added heel... but to some degree cant that be offset by furling further? Or has experience shown this to be a real concern?


A friend installed this on an older (and rather fast) hunter 40 and swears by it. If I were doing lots of long distance sailing I would be concerned about jams in the mast furling main, not being able to get it down. But I would be an outside furler could be coaxed to unfurl and then drop the main.

I found this report to be quite useful http://www.sailnet.com/forums/her-sailnet-articles/21092-upgrading-your-mainsail-system.html A key concern there are the reported missing battens and result flatter sail. I'll get back later, but my sailmaker claims a roach can be installed with vertical leach battens (which roll up into the vertical furler). No full battens of course.

Thoughts, opinions please...
 
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