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My Turn for the Keel Drop

Dferr

Member II
After reading all of the posts of RT's keel drop, I was dreading this, fearing it would be the worst. I went down last week to build the frame around the keel, as RT did.

We went down today. The travel lift was in place. They lifted her up about 2" and the keel didn't move. I was prepared and armed with everything - sawsall, wedges, hammers, floor jack. I started to notice a small gap in the end of the keel. I hammered in a few wedges and it began to widen. I then jumped back and ran away as it dropped right out! As you can see in the photo, I do have one corroded bolt, but the yard guys and I decided it's really not that big of a deal and we're going to just bolt it right back up as is. Our yard fiberglass repair guy, Joel of Fiberdex, couldn't believe how many keel boats were used on the keel. He said our boat is overbuilt and we shouldn't worry about a little corrosion on one bolt. If the bolts had been worse, I was planning to get them welded as RT did or use a coupling nut, but they really didn't seem that bad.

I then used a high speed grinder with a wire wheel to clean everything up. At this point, I believed I was ready to re-bed and re-bolt the keel back up, but as I was cleaning out all of the holes in the boat, I noticed the hole with the corroded bolt did some damage to the fiberglass as well. I plan on doing some grinding and re-glassing of that area before I bolt it up. It shouldn't be a big deal.

I hope it all goes back together as easily as it came apart. I'll keep you posted if any new problems arise.

Don
 

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rwthomas1

Sustaining Partner
Don,
Congratulations! I wish mine had been that easy. Did you ever get my PM? I have the passivating gel if you need it. Yes, one corroded bolt is no big deal. I would fix it but I am probably the most anal retentive boat owner ever..... Looks good otherwise. You might want to check the steering next, if you look at my E38 steering thread. Bring a friend when you do the final torque on the keelbolts. 250ft/lbs takes all the effort I could muster. RT
 

exoduse35

Sustaining Member
all this keel bolt talk maker me glad to have internal ballast seems like much less pain & anguish;):p
 

Dferr

Member II
Rob, I did get your message, thanks for the offer. The keel bolts look like new after hitting them with the wire wheel. I'm just going to bolt her back up. Planning to do so tomorrow, weather permitting. Then I can get on with all my other projects!

Hope all is going well!

Don

As for the internal ballast. Yes, it seems like its a lot less to worry about. But, if you have a mild grounding in some rocks, lead will absorb some energy and it's nice to be able remove and repair if need be. As long as you know the internal ballast is of high quality lead and there's no leaks, no problems.

External balast, internal balast, is one better than the other? I don't know. I guess as long as you love your boat it doesn't mater.;)
 
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Dferr

Member II
The boat is in Morgan Marina, South Amboy, NJ.

I'm doing all the work myself, so I'm only paying for the travel lift at $7.00 a foot. That's a one time fee. I thought I was going to be charged by the day, but that's not the case off season, thank God!

I'm still in the slings. Yesterday while sanding the bottom of the keel stub I found some delamination, so now I'm addressing that. I'm shooting for Saturday now, weather permitting.
 

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Dferr

Member II
The keel is back on!! It went on as easy as it came off. I stuck to my guns and used Sikaflex 291 Lot. I used 8 tubes, and I believe at least 4 tubes worth squished back out, but that's OK it's a done deal and all went well. I torqued the nuts up to 100 Lbs. I'll wait about a week or so to torque up to 250 Lbs.

Now it's time to get on with the next big project, painting the mast, Oh joy!! I love boats!! No, I realy do!!:)
 

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rwthomas1

Sustaining Partner
Congratulations! You are now a member of the "Keel hauled Club" It kinda sucks to do but the peace of mind is worth it. Have fun with the mast. I'm not ready for that just yet. RT
 

exoduse35

Sustaining Member
Keep us informed on the mast job. That is my next big project as well. will probably have to Wait till the end of the season but will look forward to hearing how easy it is....even if it isn't:egrin:
 

Sean Engle

Your Friendly Administrator
Administrator
Founder
The keel is back on!! It went on as easy as it came off. I stuck to my guns and used Sikaflex 291 Lot. I used 8 tubes, and I believe at least 4 tubes worth squished back out, but that's OK it's a done deal and all went well. I torqued the nuts up to 100 Lbs. I'll wait about a week or so to torque up to 250 Lbs.

Now it's time to get on with the next big project, painting the mast, Oh joy!! I love boats!! No, I realy do!!:)

Good deal! Nice to have something major like that behind you, eh? I always loved doing stuff like that - as it gave me real peace of mind, knowing what -exactly- was down there, etc...

//sse
 

Joliba

1988 E38-200 Contributing Member
Another keel dropped

We were just about to launch our 1988 E38-200, Joliba, when I noticed some rainwater from the bilge dripping out from the crack at the keel/hull joint on both the port and starboard sides. We are just completing the work. The keelbolts were loosened without removing any floorboards or cabinetry in the cabin. The keel dropped right off as the boat was lifted. All of the keelbolts were in very good condition, as were the nuts. The washers, however, were severely corroded having almost rusted into crumbs in some cases. The bottom of the keel root was still covered with the smooth releaser wax which had clearly never been removed during construction. After grinding, the keel was rebedded in place with 3M 4200. We chose not to use 5200 in case the keel ever needs to be removed again in the event of a bad grounding or something. 5200 would rip away fiberglass quite destructively if disassembled, and the 4200 should work quite well along with the 13 keelbolts, the epoxy filler and barrier coatings. The boat was in salt water until this year. It is now in Lake Michigan. Don't be afraid to do this if you notice this problem on your keel.
Mike Jacker
 

u079721

Contributing Partner
We were just about to launch our 1988 E38-200, Joliba, when I noticed some rainwater from the bilge dripping out from the crack at the keel/hull joint on both the port and starboard sides. We are just completing the work. The keelbolts were loosened without removing any floorboards or cabinetry in the cabin. The keel dropped right off as the boat was lifted. All of the keelbolts were in very good condition, as were the nuts. The washers, however, were severely corroded having almost rusted into crumbs in some cases. The bottom of the keel root was still covered with the smooth releaser wax which had clearly never been removed during construction. After grinding, the keel was rebedded in place with 3M 4200. We chose not to use 5200 in case the keel ever needs to be removed again in the event of a bad grounding or something. 5200 would rip away fiberglass quite destructively if disassembled, and the 4200 should work quite well along with the 13 keelbolts, the epoxy filler and barrier coatings. The boat was in salt water until this year. It is now in Lake Michigan. Don't be afraid to do this if you notice this problem on your keel.
Mike Jacker


Very interesting, as this was exactly our experience when we dropped our 1989 E38 keel. The original mold release was still in place so the caulk quickly failed, and prior to launching we noticed rainwater in the bilge dripping OUT of the boat.
 

EGregerson

Member III
keel hauled club

Looks like I'll be joining the club next winter. I haven't noticed anyone stating what a pita it must be to get the keel bolt nuts loose; my E34 has nuts under the galley; how do you get at these? the marina guy talks about drilling holes in the cabin sole. I hope not (altho i could always use a new sole :)). Also: is it totally stoopid to set the hull on stands while you work on the keel? Mine is 8000# (sans keel); with 8 stands, that would still be a half a ton on each; seemingly more than I would like to work under. Is it standard to keep the hull in the sling while doing the keel?
 

Cory B

Sustaining Member
We had our hull supported by the stands when the keel was dropped for about a week (longer than they would have been comfortable with us monopolizing a sling). I think we had six or seven pairs around the hull. However, the mast was out of the boat at the time, which made the yard people (and me) a little more comfortable. Actually, if I recall correctly, the yard said they wouldn't have put the hull alone on stands if we still had the mast up.

Hopefully your bolts will look just fine and you can just lift, clean, rebed, and drop in a day.
 
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u079721

Contributing Partner
Looks like I'll be joining the club next winter. I haven't noticed anyone stating what a pita it must be to get the keel bolt nuts loose; my E34 has nuts under the galley; how do you get at these? the marina guy talks about drilling holes in the cabin sole. I hope not (altho i could always use a new sole :)). Also: is it totally stoopid to set the hull on stands while you work on the keel? Mine is 8000# (sans keel); with 8 stands, that would still be a half a ton on each; seemingly more than I would like to work under. Is it standard to keep the hull in the sling while doing the keel?


As for getting at the nuts, my experience was with the 38, but we too had nuts under the galley. They were a pain to get at, but it just took a breaker bar and a length of cheater pipe cut down so it would fit under the galley. Don't let them go drilling holes in the cabin sole!

In our case the hull - sans keel - was stored on the cradle while separated from the keel. It seemed like a lot of weight to me too to be placed on those six pads - especially since they normally don't really have any weight on them. But it seemed to work, which is another way of saying the yard got away with it. Still not sure if it was a good idea, as there was a bit of oil canning in one spot that had to be fixed later. I would be a LOT more nervous working on the keel stub with all that weight on jack stands unless they were VERY well supported on plywood and well chained together.
 

Joliba

1988 E38-200 Contributing Member
Working with the keel off

We had no problem using 9 (I think?) jackstands carefully positioned under the reinforcement grid in the hull and well chained to one another. The part of the work with the keel off is only one day of work unless keelbolts need to be replaced. If you have a yard with slings available on a crane or Travelift it would be preferable.
We did not need to remove any floorboards in our E38-200 with the aft engine. However, a couple of bolts beneath the galley, especially the farthest aft bolt, are a tough reach. It may be different in your boat. Ericson did not think much about access for major work when they planned these boats. I used to own a Sabre 30 which, in contrast, had great access for any major replacement, repair, rewiring, or re-plumbing jobs.
 

rwthomas1

Sustaining Partner
FWIW, the yard supported my E38 with 6 pair of stands plus a bow and a stern stand. I worked under it and it was more than adequate. Mast was out. RT
 
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