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E38 steering scare

rwthomas1

Sustaining Partner
I disassembled the steering on my E38 this weekend and found the issues below. I knew about the broken rudder stop, I found that last summer. Obviously some PO had let go of the wheel while backing down and that is the result. Cracked the alloy stop right off. The cable is what freaked me out a bit. You can see that the cable ends that are supposed to be straight have been bent nicely by trying to wrap around the chain sprocket. Thats what happens when you don't have a rudder stop.... The cable is severely compromised at both fittings and has just a few "meathooks" on the rest of the length. I have done cursory inspections on the rest of the components and all looks well. Close inspection report to come.

I am planning on a pretty beefy replacement stop that will bolt on to the existing pulley base you can see in the pic. This is a pretty simple thing to do.

I am wondering where to do I get a new cable with the correct ends? Does the Edson cable and ends fit the YS chain? If anyone knows where to get the YS compatible stuff please speak up.

Thanks, RT
 

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exoduse35

Sustaining Member
I lost the steering on my 35 last year. when I pulled it apart the cables had been replaced with no ends at all just a loop with a clamp attached to the chain with a master link. The master links were replaced With a trip to a local motorcycle shop, where i also cot an extended chain that made repairs easier as they could be done from under rather than inside the Y/S pedestal. the cable was about $4 at the hardware store and the work was easy. I replaced it as it was and have had no further problems, however it is now on my pre-flight checklist and I keep enough materials to do the replacement on board taped to the tiller just in case. will watch this thread close to see if there is a better solution. Edd
 
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Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
FWIW,
It may take some searching to find it, perhaps in the ForSale forum, but one of our site members has some matching ss chain section for sale...

Loren
 

Steve Murray

Inactive Member
Steering cable ends

Rob,
My last boat had Norseman fittings (Stalok or Hymod will work too)connecting the cable to the chain. Seemed like a good idea to me. The cables can be changed out pretty easily. The chain rollers need to be about one half inch. I haven't looked at the chain on my 35 yet but it's probably that big.

Steve Murray
E35III #222
Charlottetown, PEI
 

Cory B

Sustaining Member
Chain size

The chain should be stamped with a number. IIRC the YachtSpecialities used "#50", and the wire is 3/16". If Edson uses the same sizes, I don't know why you couldn't use the Edson connectors.

I still miss Doc Freemans in Seattle... they carried most of the Yacht Specialities steering stuff long after YS was gone.
 

rwthomas1

Sustaining Partner
I spoke with Edson today and ordered new chain, chain/wire adaptors, wire, clamps, etc. Essentially a completely new setup. Direct from them is probably more that I would have paid if I shopped around but its done, its shipped and I don't have to think about it any more. Edson was very helpful and easy to deal with. RT
 

footrope

Contributing Partner
Blogs Author
Sounds of steering...

Hi Rob,

I've been trying to figure out the correct tension for the steering cables and when I did a search this thread came up. Another thread said that a 1 inch deflection in a foot of cable run was acceptable for steering cable tension. I spent some quality time in the lazarettes today and have some observations and questions about adjusting the cable tension that you might be able to help me with since your experience last year.

The rudder has almost no play and the sheaves feel very good, with almost no play when there is no tension on the cables. I lubricated the sheaves with McLube this afternoon. The steering wheel shaft, sprocket and chain look good. There is grease on the chain and sprocket. I sprayed some McLube on the shaft bushings. I may smear a little lithium grease on the chain and sprocket. I have the Yacht Specialties pedestal.

When I tighten the cable so that the cables and sheaves make almost no noise through the entire turning travel, I like that the best. When I check the deflection, I think I have just over 1/4 inch. Problem is, the longest run I can get to is about 6-8 inches (between the turning sheaves at the bottom of the pedestal and the side turning sheaves). Probably within the inch-per-foot limit. It feels a little loose, but not like it will jump out of the sheaves or the quadrant. The lack of noise makes me happy. One thing that does bother me is that I can turn the sheaves with my fingers, with moderate effort, at this tension setting.

When I tighten the cable until I can't rotate the sheaves, there is a noise like the cables are crossed (they aren't), or like the cable is twisted, and untwists as the steering system in operated through the full range of motion. I did loosen the cable again and checked that there was no twist. When I tightened it I made sure the eye-bolt did not turn. Same result -- noises -- when I tensioned it until the sheaves didn't turn.

Do you think I should back off the tension until the noise goes away, observing the 1 inch per foot rule, or is the sheave turning situation more important? I guess I lean towards the lower tension, discounting the sheaves turning. If the sheaves are lubed and not worn, they'll turn at the lower tension. It seems like higher tension than necessary could cause increased wear on the sheaves and sprocket.

Thanks in advance,
 

u079721

Contributing Partner
Adjusting tension?

Getting the tension right is probably one of those things that can only really be learned as an apprentice. Kind of like how tight is too tight when you adjust bearings?

Anyway I too struggled with this. When I would adjust the tension to achieve the recommended deflection the system would begin to growl, and the wheel became hard to turn. If I backed off just a bit the noise and rumbling went away, but then it sure seemed as if I had more deflection then I was supposed to. But since nothing seemed loose enough to fall out of a track, I chose to leave it at the looser setting, which always seemed to work for me.
 

treilley

Sustaining Partner
This is a timely discussion for me as I have my pedestal/steering system apart for pedestal refinishing and adding a rudder position sensor.

My steering has always been a little tight/hard to turn. When I got under the cockpit, I found the side turning sheaves out of alignment. I also noticed the cable being fairly tight. I do not think my steering ever made much noise but I get no feedback from the rudder which annoys me. I really am more of a tiller guy! So it sounds like looser may be better.

BTW, After laying upside down in my stern locker under the cockpit for nearly 30 minutes trying to find a place to mount the RPS transducer, I finally realised it would be much easier to mount it upside down. The transducer is in and I have removed the quadrant to mount the ball fitting. I have been documenting and will add to my web site as soon as I have it complete.
 
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footrope

Contributing Partner
Blogs Author
I never thought about the effect of cable tension on feedback through the system - another parameter to consider. Thanks for the good information.
 

footrope

Contributing Partner
Blogs Author
Trust the Internet at your own risk!

Edson says the cable tension is correct when with the wheel locked in place you cannot move the drive wheel or quadrant by hand. Do not over tighten as you loose sensitivity.

http://www.edsonmarine.com/support/PDFs/planning/EB381SteeringGuide.pdf

I've always been curious why people trust answers from strangers, but don't go to an accepted source. :rolleyes:

Sorry, stranger. Not a very helpful passage. This isn't rocket science, but that reference on it's own isn't particularly helpful to me.

Thanks for pointing it out, though.
 

Frank Langer

1984 Ericson 30+, Nanaimo, BC
I had a couple of instances where especially at slow speeds, I felt a slight roughness in the steering that isn't normally there. When I talked with "experienced" folk, they suggested it was caused by my steering being too loose causing the chain in the pedestal to rub on whatever else is in there. Sure enough, after tightening the steering cables, I've never experienced that roughness again.

Before the tightening, the wheel felt loose enough to turn easily with one hand and the steering cables weren't sloppy loose, and could not come off the sheaves when I tested that. Now the cables feel quite firm (though still with some play, and while I can still turn the wheel with one hand, two hands is more comfortable and it feels firm, not as freewheeling as before. The change hasn't affected my sailing, and I've adjusted to the new tension after a few sails. Maybe this description will help.

Frank
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Just don't accept Candy from... strangers...

While you are under the cockpit, might be good to check on those sheave bushings, too. See my pics in this earlier thread --
http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/showthread.php?t=3473&referrerid=28

As to advice, I would categorize asking "strangers" here as being a nice adjunct to getting generic formal fix-it information. Both sources can be helpful, and often you learn important trivia that applies to your particular model of product from the real-world experiences of other owners.

The illustrations you might find in a book or PDF are often not going to reveal exactly the most helpful view of your particular installation... like a set of pictures from a fellow sailboat owner...
:cool:

"That's my story and I'm sticking to it!"
:)

Regards,
LB
 

Tom Metzger

Sustaining Partner
Loren - A couple of things.

I agree with everything you said, but I don't know Candy.

I do know that the first place to look is the known good source, and then go for the additional insight, not the other way around.

'nuff said. I'm too close to Florida to start a war.
 
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