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only $8,000 to spend on sailboat which one?

tjs317

New Member
budget: up to $8000

wants: weekend cruiser/marina cocktail sailboat Great Lakes

The boats:

1973 Ericson 29 w/ atomic gas & tiller. deck leak somewhere drips into galley area nice hull with good paint, roller furling. Okay sails. $4000

1985 O'day 26 500 hours on yanmar diesel & nice navy interior. Good sails, tiller $5000

1984 Hunter 27 diesel & wheel steering, roller furling $7500

So which boat is best for the money...? assuming similiar condition... they all could fit my wants, but I prefer the ericson other than it needs cushions & has the atomic...I prefer diesel &I would prefer wheel steering, too.
any reasons to jump on the older ericson?
 
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Rob Hessenius

Inactive Member
85' Oday

My vote would be the 85 O'day. Run the diesel till she's gone. Hang a outboard after. Don't mess with the 29'! You can add a Roller furling for $1500.
 
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Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Opinions rendered, on the hour...

I would also advise, given the stated choices, the diesel boat and the tiller.
The O'Day may lack the overall build quality of the Ericson, but should be plenty fine for the planned use. The Hunter, OTOH, would be a further step down in quality and design.
Actually, it's not a really close comparison... the older E-29 will outsail the others in most conditions, and be Much more comfortable in rough waters.

Note that for happy hour at dockside or at anchor, a tiller folds up out of the way, whereas a wheel really jams up the space in a small boat cockpit.
(Wheels were only introduced into boats under 30 to 35 feet in the late 70's as a sales/marketing gimick...)

My .02 worth.
Loren
 

Chris Miller

Sustaining Member
Yup, I'd say that Oday sounds good...
Other option is to put in a "lowball" offer on the Ericson and see if it works out. Then you'd have cash to cover some sail & cushion replacement.
Lots of available parts and stuff for either the yanmar or the Atomic 4.

Totally agree with staying away from the Hunter. Only if it were a new boat would I think about it- I'd much rather do maintenance work on an older Oday or Ericson or Morgan than an old Hunter or Benny.

Just opinions, as asked for-:egrin:
Good luck!
Chris
 

rod sanburn

Member II
Tjs

I would agree with the other captains on the O'Day. We have quite a few at our Sailing Association LMSA. I sail a Ericson 27 with a A-4 and a tiller. Its much Happier sailing full and By when the O'days are reefed or at the dock,:) but she's heavier so unless I change to a lighter larger head sail the O'days hold their own in lighter winds. Is the O'day a swing keel or fixed? Rod
 

ChrisS

Member III
Unless you are in a hurry, wait for "the one."

If you like one of those boats, go for it. But I learned (the hard way) that it may take months to find the boat that speaks to you and doesn't need a ton of work. I love my boat, but I am in the process of restoring and replacing things that are over 30 years old...to me it's worth it since I plan on staying with this boat for a long time.


Plus, with the economy sliding, there are bound to be some deals. There is an Irwin 30 with a diesel in nice really shape at my dock that started about at $15K and is now down to $8K.

I may get slammed for saying this, but don't get hung up on avoiding the Atomic Four. Diesels like to be run hard, often, and for long periods of time. If your motoring consists of getting out of the slip and around the marina, you may find that a well-maintained A-4 will work well. Mine just keeps on going, and it looks like it will outlast the rusty metal beds it sits on.
 
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Gary Peterson

Marine Guy
Personally I would go with the 29 Ericson.
More interior space, better build, and when the wind picks up on the upper Great Lakes, a safer and better sailing boat.
 

chaco

Member III
Go Diesel and Wheel !

My Deal Breaker when looking at a boat are Diesel Engines and Wheel Steering
The mere thought of having a gas engine on board brings shutters up my
spine. This Design was abandoned on Sailboats by 1990 :cool:
I have had Tillers on Cal 20's and the like and NEVER want to see one again.
Try hanging on for hours on end in a following sea comming over your stern.
Boats here are valued first by a Transferrable Slip ($5-10K) the rest gets
added on from there. The gas engine sailboats are not worth much more
than the slip. Having the engine rebuilt is the same cost as the boat.
Most of these boats are purchased for the Slip :rolleyes: and salvaged.
Obviously the Ericsons were one of the better built boats of it's day.
The real deal is to buy a boat with all the improvements already installed.
This is only a process of WAITING for the right boat, specially now in a bad
economy. The boats are pooring on to the market daily. This is process of
seperating the hobbiests from the boatnuts :nerd:

Good Fishing :egrin: :egrin:
 

treilley

Sustaining Partner
Here's a different perspective. I loved the feel of the tiller on my Pearson 28 and it allowed me to duck under the dodger in rough conditions. As for the A4, it is a great little engine. It is very reliable and cheap to rebuild if necessary. It is also smoother and quieter than a diesel. Yes, gasoline is bad but so is propane. I hear people swear they will never own a boat with a gasoline engine but they use propane for cooking. I have owned gasoline powered boats for 30+ years and never had a problem because I know the risks and am very carefull.

My present boat has a diesel and CNG and I still run the blower. I guess old habits are hard to break:egrin:
 

rod sanburn

Member II
Gasoline vs. Diesel Tiller vs. wheel

Cap'tns
I just came back from a charter for 3 weeks in the mid to lower keys. My E-27 has a tiller and A-4. The boat we chartered had a wheel and a diesel. This is what I've experienced with the charter boats over the past few years. After a few days , your clothing, bedding pillows take on a hint of a smell, diesel. After 2-3 weeks its more noticable. Here's the kicker, as your sailing or motor sailing, as we know happens, you become use to it. I really notice it after I leave the boat at the end of the charter. Open your sea bag on land and you can smell it. I chartered a Morgan 41 with a Perkins, Hunter460 with a Universal, Watkins33 with a Yanmar, Catalina320 with a Yanmar, the only boat that I could not smell diesel on was a Lagoon 380 with twin Yanmars stuck aft in the Hulls.

The economy of the diesel gph is superior to my A-4. The key to a safe A-4 is pure common since with good mantainence in my humble opinion. Most folks that I have talked to about gas, A-4s that are afraid of them have never owned one, or they boat a boat with one that was not maintained. Nuff Said about that.

Here's my feeling about Wheel vs Tiller, I like both the down side is for a while when I go from tiller to wheel I turn the wrong way:). Is'nt life grand to be able to enjoy so many wonderful opinions. Rod
 

Ernest

Member II
Gas(oline) vs. deisel

Does everyone realize that about 80% of all power boats (maybe more) are powered by gasoline? They're not exactly blowing up every day. Just an occasional dumb one. But of course even a few diesel owners and quite a number of propane users have managed to set fire to their boats. Any system neglected is a dangerous system.
 
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CaptDan

Member III
Does everyone realize that about 80% of all power boats (maybe more) are powered by gasoline? They're not exactly blowing up every day. Just an occasional dumb one. But of course even a few diesel owners and quite a number of propane users have managed to set fire to their boats. Any system neglected is a dangerous system.

Every so often I like to get into the 'champion-the-A4-discussions.' Since it's been awhile, here goes:

The concern about gasoline engines in boats is over-rated; as you say, tens of thousands of powerboats with gas plants, plying the waters, are staying intact everyday. And, from some of the stats that've crossed my desk (including some accidents personally observed) I'd give the nod to CNG as the greater concern.

Secondly, it's not about the A4, but how it's maintained and set up. The bad news is there are vulnerable components - ignition/fuel/exhaust systems. The good news is, these are easily remedied, and always, at far less expense than repowering. Thanks to 'gurus' like Don Moyer, and Featherman, there's an abundance of parts, as well as reconditioned blocks available.

Third, the issue of resale value is often used as an argument for repowering an older boat. However, that's not always valid; depending upon the boat's initial value, and the condition of the the hull and systems, the actual resale may only be bumped up by a few thousand dollars relative to the same boat in better condition with an A4.

In other words, if you buy a gas auxilliary/sailboat for $8, put another 10K into a diesel repower, you don't necessarily have an $18k boat. In a down market it may only amount to $12-14k. You can rebuild/replace an A4 for the difference in lost 'profit.'

Finally, I've known enough folk who've repowered to know, that it's never a simple out/in scenario. There are motor mounts to be replaced, shafts, propellers, exhaust systems - and even tanks. And - depending on the engine and location, there's usually some surgery involved as well. Point is, if you can do it all yourself, it's one thing; hire somebody to do it for you - it's another.

Here's where the issue becomes important: operating range and intended use. If you're planning on long distance cruising, you get more range out a diesel, while not having to carry extra gas jugs (which add to the 'pucker factor' of fumes in tight spaces). Plus, if you keep the boat for many years employed in this fashion, there are the intangibles of long term owner satisfaction which favor the cost of a repower.

I've been an A4 afficiando since my first boat in '91. I find the little beasts easy to maintain, quiet and cost effective to upgrade. With some occasional operating exceptions readily addressed, both engines - once rebuilt and gotten up to speed - have proven reliable and inexpensive to run.

But - I'm not a long distance cruiser, so take all this for what it's worth.
And - if you find a boat with a good diesel already in place, go for it, and disregard the above.

YMMV.

Capt Dan G>E35II "Kunu"
 
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sleather

Sustaining Member
Does everyone realize that about 80% of all power boats (maybe more) are powered by gasoline? They're not exactly blowing up every day. Just an occasional dumb one. But of course even a few diesel owners and quite a number of propane users have managed to set fire to their boats. Any system neglected is a dangerous system.

I'm in the process of buying a 20' Chevy powered gasoline inboard powerboat and in that boat you're actually sitting ON the engine box. I plan on installing an automatic fire suppression system similar to the old Halon system.

It's my feeling that sailors are "puckered" by the fact that the engine and gas tank are located in closer proximity to the cabin area whereas "most" inboard powered boats have the engine and tanks conveniently located out-of-sight and out-of-mind behind a bulkhead and under the deck. This is often a trade-off as free access for maintenance can be severely impaired and hence ignored.

As statistics show a gasoline engine is not necessarily a liability.
 

chaco

Member III
Atomic 4 Convention

Sounds like we are very sensative about our Engine Choices :cool:
The Atomic 4 gas engine has served us well over the years.
The Sailboat Industry has settled on the diesel engine for Fire Safety,
Reliability, Long Distance Operation and Fuel Economy.
Keeping a Classic running is always a noble endevor :nerd:

Happy Auxilliary :egrin: :egrin:
 

tjs317

New Member
Wow! thanks for all the replies!

Well, I appreciate all the replies...I haven't pulled the trigger yet, but won't spend another summer without a sailboat.

Right now the O'day is 1st & the E29 is 2nd. I'll be sure to post pics if I end up the the ericson. This board is a strong reason to own an ericson...but the O'day is more turn key...& I like that yanmar...
 

treilley

Sustaining Partner
Whatever you decide, please stick around. We do have other posters here that own non Ericson boats. Many topics covered here are generic to most boats.
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
No Hurry....

TJS,
Please:
1) Do not be too concerned about finding a boat this very week. It is a strong Buyers Market, and should get stronger thruout the year.
2) Be cautious of apples-to-oranges (and mellons) comparisons.
In this particular matchup, the O'Day is best viewed as a very large "small boat." The E-29 is a small yacht, by displacement, hull volume, sea keeping ability, and storage.

I realize that the O'Day seems roomy when you enter the cabin, but like all boats that put a lot of accomodation into a short length, storage and tankage is compromised severely.
Such an observation is *not* intended to impugn its sailing manners, however.
A handy pocket reference comparison is to jot down the LOA and Beam for anything on your short list...
And, listen for your mental "design alarm for on-water discomfort" to start buzzing when ever the length-beam ratio goes over 3 to 1. When the waves are steep and unrepentent, the narrower hull with the most V to the forefoot gets thru the vertical liquid softer and more gently. When the seas are four feet at four seconds, you do *not* want a fat, flat bottom condo under you.
:p

Story Time: As a sort of semi-related example of boat size vs $, a friend of mine sold his year-old Beneteau 31 last year to help move him away from payments and closer to retirement. Needing a smaller, but fast cruiser, he and his wife found a mint-condition 80's Beneteau First 26 with diesel. It has speed, just enough comfort for several days of cruising at a time, and a "sailor's cockpit layout" with tiller and aft traveler. Best of all.... No Payments!

Heck, after ten happy years with out former Niagera 26, we only moved up so that I could finally get full standing headroom (6'2") in the current Olson 34.
We used to spend two weeks at a time cruising that N-26 and I won a lot evening races with it, too.
So I do like "right sized" sailboats. :)

FWIW, when we spent a whole year (!) shopping for "something about 30 feet or so long" we did indeed get boating withdrawal symtoms. :rolleyes:
Note: eating more chocolate helps, but only for a while...
But then the right boat for us finally came along, and that was back in '94.;)

So, whatever you buy, keep us informed, and do stick around to compare project notes. Concerned and thoughtful owners are the real power behind this fine web site.

**Opinions rendered on the hour, while U wait!
Cheers,
Loren
:egrin:
 
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Steve Swann

Member III
Headroom and Trailers

Can you stand up in the O'day? Is headroom a factor?

If you ever want to trail a boat behind you, maybe the O'day is a good pick as an over-the-road traveler. Living in a landlocked area considering ANY boat under 30', I would always have to think of travel mobility.

The Ericson might have some wet core issues if there is a leak.

I think many Hunter designs were better built to hold Chlorox.

My free advice and opinons,

Steve Swann
E 25 c/b
 

sleather

Sustaining Member
No hurry?...well

TJS,
Please:
1) Do not be too concerned about finding a boat this very week. It is a strong Buyers Market, and should get stronger thruout the year.

There's a ton of used boats on the martket.........but....... it's MHO that sailing is going to start looking REALLY good to prospective buyers w/ the NEVER ENDING upward spiral in fuel costs.:mad:

He who "hesitates" will be looking at a picked over inventory. Best find a GOOD one while you can.;)

Time for some "blow-boat" PAYBACK!:egrin:
 
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ChrisS

Member III
Look early and often, but buy wisely...

With the economy headed into the tank, at least with so much negative economic data in the media, expensive accessories like boats will be worth less if fewer people are in the market for them. I see many nice-looking boats sitting on the market in my area; the guy down the dock who is selling his Irwin (see earlier post) is a contractor. I think some people whose livelihoods are housing-based are hurting right now.

You'll know the right boat when you see it and get a feel for how well the owner has used and cherished it. Make a short list of features you want and then designs that have those features, and then go for it. Boat ownership and sailing, while it can be expensive, is the most gratifying recreation and outlets I can think of.
 
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