Looking at a $3000 OBO E-30

Hello all, I've found a 1967 E-30 for $3000 OBO. I'm going to look at it this Saturday. What areas do you think I should look at to determine if its worth getting a survey? Are there any inherit problems with this design? The owners' willing to work with me on purchasing it. Its has some rain water damage(interior wood panels) and the engine doesn't run. 1 new sail, the interior cushions and the rest of the sails have been stored in his house. Its moored behind his house on a river. Even if this is a project boat I'd be willing to take it on, unless you guys tell me they're junk. I think its a beautiful design and my Wife has okayed my dreams of getting a sailboat. I've got plenty of free time to restore it, but I do want to sail it before I die. Thanks for any feedback, sorry if this is in the wrong post.

It sort of... depends...

shawnkelly said:

Hello all, I've found a 1967 E-30 for $3000 OBO. I'm going to look at it this Saturday. What areas do you think I should look at to determine if its worth getting a survey? Are there any inherit problems with this design? The owners' willing to work with me on purchasing it. Its has some rain water damage(interior wood panels) and the engine doesn't run. 1 new sail, the interior cushions and the rest of the sails have been stored in his house. Its moored behind his house on a river. Even if this is a project boat I'd be willing to take it on, unless you guys tell me they're junk. I think its a beautiful design and my Wife has okayed my dreams of getting a sailboat. I've got plenty of free time to restore it, but I do want to sail it before I die. Thanks for any feedback, sorry if this is in the wrong post.

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This will be, depending on your idea of a useful and theraputic leisure time activity, really interesting work or depressing drudgery.

If you have some woodworking and fiberglassing skills, and a reasonable tool collection, and... a dry place to do your work...
this could get you a beautiful classic Ericson to sail with your friends and admiring family. As one of our members here puts it: "the golden triangle of boat ownership = time, skill, and money; you need two out of three!"
If I have misquoted CaptDan, my bad.

Keep the finished project and enjoy it for at least a decade. Then you will not mind that much of your out-of-pocket expense will not come back to you in $$; i.e. this will probably never resell for much over 20K, on it's best day.
Great memories, though!

This model has a good sailing reputation. Compared to the later wider Ericsons, the interior space is less for its length. Compared to Tartans and Cals from the same era, however, the proportions are very similar. Note that a narrower hull is inherently better balanced under sail.

It will have More exterior wood to- 1) admire, and 2) maintain.

There is some information on this site on the "mark one" Ericson 30, but not a whole lot.

Any of our site members that have owned and loved one of the other early Ericsons (23-1, 26-2, or 35-1) will probably have some cogent advice on what to look for.
Here is a site link for another Ericson model from that era:
http://ericsonalbergclassic.homestead.com/Page1.html
And here is a site with a "full Monty" rebuild of a similar vintage boat (albeit not an Ericson):
http://www.triton381.com/

As someone once said, about a multi-year boat building project-- he isn't sure he is building a boat or the boat is building him!

Pursuing a dream can be almost an end in itself... OR if you want to be out sailing this summer, find another, more "turn key" Ericson and buy it...


Regards,
Loren in distant PDX

They're very pretty...but, ummmm - does your bio say that the "boat is in WA" and you're in Florida? Are you aware of how much it costs to move a boat across country (like $10k - probably more, now...).

I'm not trying to dampen your spirits, but as Loren has indicated, bringing a boat back up to speed is no small feat...and it's not free either. Even if you do all the work yourself, it still costs money - so your budget will probably be (at a minimum) 3x to 5x times what you pay for her - assuming there is nothing seriously wrong. Engines alone (for my 35-3) were $7-10k...probably a bit cheaper for your boat....

Why this boat? How long have you been looking? Tell us more about why you've centered on this boat, etc...and take your camera with you on Saturday - we would love to see some pictures...

//sse

The boat I'm going to look is here in Fl. where I live. My old sailboat is in WA. It was an E-27, which made me an Ericson Lover. That and the price of this '67 are the reason why I'm so interested.

Classic E30-1

shawnkelly said:

The boat I'm going to look is here in Fl. where I live. My old sailboat is in WA. It was an E-27, which made me an Ericson Lover. That and the price of this '67 are the reason why I'm so interested.

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Oh, I see....

Well, then what you're talking about is really a restoration of a classic Ericson hull. I think it's great that you would want to restore the boat, my only advice is to be realistic about the cost of doing so, and the time involved. If you have a cheap/free barn or garage that's clean and dry, and can really take your time with it, then it could be a great project boat, etc...

Beyond that, all the standard warnings apply - especially there in Florida (where the sun rips things up): deck crazing, if water has penetrated, indication if the boat has flooded, etc. Bear in mind, that at $3000, what you're really talking about is (what it sounds like to me) a salvage job. You'll get the bones - and will have to take the long route back.

They're very pretty - very classic boats...

I would love to see some images of the boat....please do let us know what you decide to do...

See the images (a 68 and 69) and link below....

//sse

http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/showthread.php?t=2551&highlight=restoration

Thanks for the pictures, they're fueling my desire to get this one. Ever since I moved away from Bellingham and my E-27, I've been longing to get back on the water. I wonder why Saturday feels like a month away. I'll post pics as soon as I get home, I'll be interested in your feedback.

I went and looked at it...I want to see if I can offer him 1500 cash for it. I hope I don't offend him, It doesn't seem to be worth any more than that. It has alot of interior wood damage from a bilge pump mishap. I'd say that its confined to about a foot from the bottom. Theres some soft spots up on deck but they're not bad enough to scare me away. I'd have to scrub it good before I let my Wife even see it. It needs alot of work but I'm still interested. I tried to get a good full picture of it, but the tide was out. It looks like its still got some life to it, I just need to save her before shes too far gone. Tell me what you think.

E-30

Shawn-
Looks like you will have your hands full. I know what it is like to get "smitten" with something. Some of my wild hairs have come out, but some not. I'm not one that will say run, but really think about this and I mean THINK! $1500 is more than fair. I would insult him more.

Regards-
Rob Hessenius

Rob, Yeah theres ALOT of work to do on this. Theres no telling whats hiding (or sleeping) behind all that surface damage. But, I still wouldn't mind a project. In the end, I would at least know everything about this boat, inside and out. It really looks like I'll need to strip every piece of wood out of it and start over. All the fiberglass looks to be in good shape, even the exterior wood looks salvagable. The engine...I won't even try to salvage it. He wasn't there today Maybe I'll take 1000 cash over this Friday and see if I can take it off his hands, Maybe if I make it all twentys, it'll look convincing. His is the only boat in his neighborhood that looks so... unloved. I would love to bring that boat back to its glory.

Major Project Ahead...

Wow.



Like I said - you're getting the 'bones' - so unless you're independently wealthy, and can work on this full time, and hire people to do stuff, I would forget sailing her for at least 2-6 seasons...depending on what you can do time-wise and financially...

What I would strongly recommend is that you find a clean, dry place near you where you can get very cheap/free rent, and still be within a decent distance of your home (like a barn or big garage). If you own your house, and have some property, you could pour a thin slab (4" perhaps) and then build a simple shop around her. Either way, you need to get the boat out of the water, pull the stick and start disassembling her - and save the components for measurements, etc.

Also - talk this over with your wife - in detail. Be honest with her about it - about how long it's going to take, the kind of commitment it'll take, etc. Don't downplay the level of difficulty - but include her in the project. If she feels left out, put upon, or otherwise left with nothing to say about it, you're creating real trouble.

Finally - I was looking for something inspirational for you -and found these great links of Tim Lackey in Maine - which are really great - excellent work - show them to your wife....

http://www.triton381.com/
http://www.lackeysailing.com/restoration.htm (thanks Loren!)

Let us know what happens, ok - and take lots of pictures - make a habit of it. If you do this thing, we'll add some pages on the site for your project!

Good Luck!

//sse

http://www.wbryant.com/StellaBoat/index.htm

Sit down with this large project web site and a cup of coffee and spend an hour or two (or three) marveling at what Wally hath brought forth...

His is a larger boat, but he has documented the details with lots of close up photos and his skill as a writer really shows up in the narrative.

Keep us informed!

Best Wishes,

Loren

I'll sit down and talk to my wife again tonight, If we still agree on this huge project, I'll make my offer to this guy. If he accepts, you guys will have a step by step, photographed restoration of a '67 E-30. If not, I'll just keep looking. Speaking of that, I found a 30' Pearson for 1500. Heres a picture of it. Its already in much better shape but it isn't a Ericson

shawnkelly said:

I'll sit down and take to my wife again tonight, If we still agree on this huge project, I'll make my offer to this guy. If he accepts, you guys will have a step by step, photographed restoration of a '67 E-30. If not, I'll just keep looking. Speaking of that, I found a 30' Pearson for 1500. Heres a picture of it. Its already in much better shape but it ain't no Ericson

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Good. Good luck with it. Let us know what happens either way (either boat, I mean).

When you look at the Pearson, make sure you look for structural deal killers. If the boat is in apparent better shape, and he wants less, I would be cautious (especially since you're down there where there is sea of hurricane-trashed boats for sale). Pearsons are nice boats as well - but I would be really, really cautious...

Also, do take a look at Tim's sites. They are very informative - and show you to down to the detail of what you're in for (he does this for a living now). He shows specifically what he did, how long it look , etc. Both sites are HUGE and are packed with info on restoration.

//sse

shawnkelly said:

Speaking of that, I found a 30' Pearson for 1500..... but it isn't a Ericson

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See the newest issue of Practical Sailor which has a review of the Pearson 30.

I've done a little research on the Pearson, I called the owner and he told me it is a 68' Pearson Triton 30'. But the only triton I found where 28's. So I guess thats what it really is. I think the guy whos selling it is a broker so maybe he doesn't know exactly what hes got. I haven't got up the nerve to make the Ericson owner a offer yet.

shawnkelly said:

I've done a little research on the Pearson, I called the owner and he told me it is a 68' Pearson Triton 30'. But the only triton I found where 28's. So I guess thats what it really is. I think the guy whos selling it is a broker so maybe he doesn't know exactly what hes got. I haven't got up the nerve to make the Ericson owner a offer yet.

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_____________
Shawn,
My appologies. I first thought I was replying to you message and then, Too Late, discovered I had clicked on the edit button! Yikes. Now your message is mostly restored (?), I shall try again.
"Some days it's hardly worth the time to chew through the restraints..."

What I was trying to add was...
____________
I understand your reluctance to offer less... But still, you must offer what you think it's worth to YOU, without guilt. After all, it's your money...

IF the present owner could get a quick offer of 3K, it would be sold and gone already.

Remember that when the owner came up with the 3K round number, he could have just as easily said One dollar, 1K or 2K; he probably decided on 3K because it sounds like the boat has *some* value, and might therefore garner more interest. This is like the old garage sale tactic: if you say the item is free, NO one will take it, but if you put a low price on it, now it has (however unrealistically) "value," and someone will feel they must bargain you downward so that they can buy it and get a "deal!"


One side note on the classic Pearson, unlike the Ericson, I believe that it is a full keel design, with different performance parameters under sail and power. Not a bad thing, but it's good to note that the two boats are not an "apples to apples" comparison. If you were to compare the Ericson to something like a Cal 30-2 of the same era, the performance comparison would, IMHO, be closer.

Good luck and keep us posted.

Loren in PDX

Brokers - Yeeech!

After having gone what I went through, the next broker or real estate agent I deal with will be very tired at the end of the deal.

This boat (the Ericson) is trashed. I would (at a minimum) cut his asking price in half - if not more (like $500 or $1000 max). You need to know if that boat's hull is even structurally sound...

On the other hand, if the Pearson is in good shape, and the broker is not paying attention - or the seller is desperate - you might really consider going that way. With the Ericson you're buying a -major- renovation project - not a boat (at this point).

Since you had an E27, I'm not going to go down the list of stuff to watch - you should know that by now. Just realize (when you talk the Ericson owner) that (from his point of view) you're paying him to haul his trash away... Stay indifferent about it...the market is full of boats right now...

//sse

Is the mast warped? -- or an illusion from the pic.

That boat will cost far more than it will ever be worth to restore, if restoration is even possible. Maybe he should pay you $1,500 to dispose of it?

MarkA said:

Maybe he should pay you $1,500 to dispose of it?

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That's actually not ridiculous.
If he can't sell it (and I'd be a little suprised if he could) it'll cost him probably $500-1000 to get a salvage yard to take it. (At least that was the rate that my hauler usually charged for salvages coming into his yard).

And I wasn't trying to be ridiculous.

To get my slip, I had to wait for a derelict to be disposed of. The marina suggested I take the boat and get rid of it. In exchange, they would give the slip with the first 6 months free. They ended up paying about $3,000, IIRC, to have someone dispose of it (I didn't want that headache).