Autohelm 4000 Rudder Sensor

Hi Guys
I have an 82 E33 with an Autohelm 4000 installed. Like some of the other owners on this site mine doesn`t hold a course very well. This year I made an improvement by relocating the fluxgate compass but the boat still wanders till the control head gets lost. One of the symptoms is while the unit is on a specific course it may start to turn left, then a little more left then a little more until the control head post an error. Talking with Ray Marine they suggested a rudder position sensor. I have read some earlier posts where owners have installed the sensor. What has the result been, does the sensor make a difference? Look forward to hearing from you.

Right or wrong, and I certainly am no technition, I suspect either a connectivity problem with the wiring, or a board-level problem with the AP itself.
I installed an A4000S model in '95 and about 3 seasons ago the AP board quit -- unit just shut down without warning and never revived --
and our local marine electronics dealer ran some diagnostics on it and then sent it off to Raymarine for repair. About $275. later and a new "A4000s+" motherboard we were back in business, and so remain.

Ours locks on to course quickly and only once in a while will "snake wake" a bit. I know that these modern units have some sort of logic circuit/memory for sea state correction that replaced the old (analog) user-adjustable "dead band" dial.

In general it is nice not to have to fine tune it every time I use it, but OTOH it is a classic "black box" situation where this function seems to have been removed from my control.
So, if all the external connections are clean, and your power supply is constant, and it still mis-directs in one direction, I would talk to a marine electronics shop.
I hope that you still have the factory install and setup manual.

Only .01 worth,
Loren in PDX

ps: no rudder sensor, and am not sure one was even offered for ours, back in '95.

Our Autohelm was quite problematic as well, and we would sometimes have what we called "excursions" where the unit would start a hard right turn, or never settle down after a turn after reaching a way point. All of this AFTER I had the unit serviced.

One result is that I never let it steer without supervision, sort of like a 12 year old, which isn't a bad way to treat your autopilot. But the other thing that does actually help is to swing or calibrate the fluxgate. At a minimum you need to do this once a season, and more often really did seem to help.

I agree with Steve. I supervise my 4000S when in use. Aside from setting up the compass every year there are two other adjustments that really can make a difference. Check out your manual to fine tune the adjustments

S1 Autopilot Works Good

The new S1 Raymarine Wheel Pilot which included a Rudder Position Sensor I put in our e32-3 works very well and holds course pretty close. The sensor was a buggar to install correctly, but worth it. Just another data point.

might need a feedback servo installed on rudder post

I purchased a new Jeaneau 37 in 2001 that came with the raymarine autohelm 4000, etc. Had the same problem. Was eventually told that the autopilot "head" is blind to "where" the rudder is unless you install the OPTIONAL rudder feedback devise. It's a server feedback motor that is installed on the rudder post so that the autohelm then knows where the rudder is at any time. Marked improvement to that "snaking course" you talked about.
By the way, had to dump the Jeaneau, retired early, just purchased a 1973 E-25 C/B.

Thanks Everyone

Not sure what to do, I have donethe fluxgate compass setup as well as played with the rudder gain and something else that adjusts how quickly the rudder reacts, all have made some improvement but still wont hold a course very closely. When it starts to wander off course it may turn 5 degrees right the 10 degrees left then another 5 degrees left, even though the correct course is back to the right. Once it starts searching it takes a few minutes before it gets lost. I dont want to spend the money and go through the install hassle if the rudder position sensor if it wont correct the problem.

Mine did just what you are describing, until I adjusted the Rudder Gain from 5 down to 1, and then it worked perfectly. I have to do it each time I use the the Autohelm, though I think there is a way to adjust it so it saves the setting, but I haven't had time to figure that out yet.

I know you mentioned you had adjusted the Rudder Gain, but perhaps you didn't save the setting, so the problem is reoccurring for you. My daughter described the autohelm as a "drunk driver" until I made the adjustment--then she was quite impressed.

The other adjustment you alluded to was the Response, which can be at 2 or 1, and I think 1 is the recommended setting.

I don't have the Rudder Position sensor, yet the Autohelm works perfectly, so I think it may be the adjustments, not the lack of the Rudder Position Sensor.

Hope that helps.

Frank.

I think you should know that the 4000 will steer certain boats no problemo without the feedback yet will be totally flummoxed by others. The 30+ seems to be ok without yet a C&C 30 needs it. Also, earlier models (ST 50 and early ST 60 MK2) seemed to be ok as they were less sensitive. The later Mk2 and the new S1 have a more advanced software/processor that requires the feedback to operate properly. And yes, the reduction of drive activity is remarkable. This is a great product with a huge number in service. When used within it's limitations and properly installed and initialized it is great asset to any boat.

Where in the Okaland-SF area is the right place to take one of these 4000 things to have it serviced. I would love to have a real expert go over it, and then find someone who could actually show me how to operate it. I think most of the problems I have with it are operator error. How much can you do at the dock? What do you mean by "initialize" it?

Well.... You must swing the compass, achieve less than 15 degrees deviation and set the parameters to match your boat on seatrial. Usually takes an hour or so. Call Raymarine for a CERTIFIED installler in your area.

Great Information Thankyou

The unit does seem to work better after setting Rudder Gain at 1 and the Rudder Response at 1 under sail. Perhaps I am not saving the settings after making the changes, not sure without looking at the manual.

How accurate is the unit when working as designed, how long will it stay on course?

Well... I'm leaving for Desolation Sound tomorrow and I expect it to steer all the way there (95 miles) as it has several times in the past. It yaws very slightly but not so much that it is an issue.

More 2 bits worth on S1 Wheel Pilot Settings

Getting the Response and Rudder gain set is important to how these things work. Mine works best with Response set to 2 or 3 for fast attack on errors but with the Rudder Gain set to 3 or 4 for not too much rudder angle when correcting, but every boat is different. These settings are initially set in "Dealer Cal" and should then be the same at startup. But mine doesn't always seem to work that way. I sometimes have to set Rudder gain at every bootup in "User Cal" . Still working on that one.
Another comment on installing a Rudder Angle Sensor. The Sensor angle range was less than the rudder actually turned on our boat. To get it installed so the sensor measured correctly with no chance on linkage binding was a real geometry problem. But as I mentioned well worth the effort. We can trim course headings to a degree or so on flat water. Really neat.

s1

newgringo; you wouldn't happen to have a pic of your rudder position set up would you? I'm installing an S1 in an E34; looks like i have to get pretty creative to set this up right.

No, I dont but I can shoot some next week after our boat comes back into port. I'll post them then. One of your first problems may be the rudder maximum angle. The rudder on my boat turned about +- 70 degrees hard over whereas the sensor could only swing +- 60 degrees. I could not see any way to make up for this with unequal sensor pivot arm lengths. I tried hard. Since , in my opinion, I did not need that much rudder angle I modified the boat rudder stops to limit rudder angle to +- 55 degrees. Plenty of angle to me. Then it was on to the geometry part to make it fit, clear everything and work correctly. I made a full scale plan view sketch of the geometry of my install. If anyone wants it (broken into 3 jpeg images which can be cut and pasted together) send me an email address (griggs@centurytel.net) and I'll email them. They are too big to upload to this site. Also you might want to look at another post of mine under rudder sensor install or something like that a few months ago.

Rudder Sensor Install Pics E32-3

Here is the pics of the Raymarine Rudder Sensor install on our E32-3. The Sensor body is not mounted directly beside the rudder post as you would expect. It is fwd and the corresponding point on the tiller arm is to stbd to make the geometry work out. One pic is rudder straight ahead, one full port and the other full stbd. Note the big donut with the two hose clamps over the tiller arm stopper pin to limit the rudder travel to +- 55 degrees. Tricky but it all works good.

S1 Raymarine replacing S4000 autopilot

newgringo said:

The new S1 Raymarine Wheel Pilot which included a Rudder Position Sensor I put in our e32-3 works very well and holds course pretty close. The sensor was a buggar to install correctly, but worth it. Just another data point.

Click to expand...

I saw your note about it being a buggar to install. I have a '76 E32-2 and am not sure what to install where and how for the rudder sensor. Any suggestions at all would be helpful. Pictures?

Jerry Single