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Chainplates and Bulkhead - replace?

jthistle

Member II
What a discovery! Someone up there is taking care of me. This is a snap of the chainplate as I discover it today. Had a fuel can tied to the stay on the last trip and never got a look at it. - Thankfull for small miracles! I was planning on taking the boat out early for a winter rehab project but this will make that happen alot faster.

I'm looking for a little feedback on the PO's bulkhead fix. There is a 3/8 piece of Fiberglass well secured to the hull and seemingly in good shape its just not tabbed or glassed to the rest of the bulkhead but looks like a good bond to the hull and the deck. I'm going to replace the bulkhead, or part of it, and was wondering what I should do with the existing fix for chainplate bolting. Looks to be secure but... is that enough material for the stresses and can i replace the lower (rotted)part of the bulkhead, scarf it together and then glass over the works - cover with a sheet of panel and call it a day? The other option is to cut out the fiberglass fix and mount and entire bulkhead - If it will fit into the companionway...Anyone know if it it will on a 1972 E35?

Thanks for any help....I'm way over my head with this and appreciate any advice.

cheers
jason
1972 E25 #268
 

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tenders

Innocent Bystander
I had a rotting bulkhead problem on my 1969 E32 last year. The wood bulkhead around the chainplate bolts was completely rotten. This is probably what your PO had too. The official repair is to remove and replace the entire bulkhead, which is a project massively exceeding my carpentry and patience skills and if done by a pro comes darn close to the value of the boat. A highly skilled Belizean carpenter at the boatyard scarfed in a piece of 3/4" mahogany marine plywood held in place with Flexepoxy and did a very nice job of it. It was still an expensive repair but it was done well and I kept the boat.

I hate to say this but at best, yours is the most hideous repair I've ever seen. A couple of strips of old duct tape would really improve it cosmetically. However, in my amateur opinion, what's left to do may not be all that bad.

I'm pretty sure the 3/8" fiberglass you've got in there is stronger in every dimension than an equivalently-sized piece of the 3/4" plywood that was in there originally. However, I doubt that the tabbing holding your fiberglass to the bulkhead is sufficiently strong to support the vertical loading from the chainplate. That load is designed to be borne by the bulkhead tabbing and the tabbing by the keel. The top of the bulkhead, and probably the top of the fiberglass sheet you've got, is almost certainly NOT physically attached to the deck but it does butt up against the deck so the deck helps stabilize the chainplate.

You probably have a lot less than 50% of the designed surface area supporting the chainplate, and perhaps 10-15% or less of the strength of the bulkhead as originally designed. It is surprising that the CHAINPLATE was what gave way here!

You're replacing more of the bulkhead because of the rot beneath the cutout? You may be surprised -- it might not be as severe as you think. What's the deal with the three vertical holes drilled into the inboard side of the fiberglass?

If I were going to do this myself I'd aggressively sand, and possibly taper, 8-12 inches on both sides of the bulkhead back from the cutout. Then I'd tab several layers of cloth from the patch to the wood for as good an epoxy bond as I can get, on both sides of the bulkhead. I'd then grind this reasonably flush and use throughbolts to attach thin mahogany plywood sheets over the fiberglass. The thin plywood would be cosmetic, and removable for inspection, but the throughbolts would act as a mechanical link to bolster the epoxy bond.

I'm no Martin King, for sure, but I don't think this would be very difficult. It might just be a few hours of work...and probably the same amount of time for cleanup.
 
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jthistle

Member II
Whew...

I'm feeling real lucky tonight that the chainplate didn't break. I figure I had one port tack remaining.

Tenders, Thanks for the advice. I think you have suggested a suitable approach. We'll get t'grinding tomorrow. Yup. just replacing the lower outboard part of the bulkhead - rotten near the floor of the head and along the hull. So I can likley tab in a piece and then glass and bolt to the remaining bulkhead? As for the three holes drilled in the glass - they were for a small d ring setupon the deck...had no real application that I can see. I've got a huge deck job slated for the fall so all the hardware is coming off - Doing the work myself so - should be ok. Never paid much for the boat...I'm now thinking that it shoulda been free!

anyone else do anything like this. I've seen bulkheads replaced....but this is a bit different.

thanks again...I'll keep the camera clicking on this one.

Cheers
jason
 

rwthomas1

Sustaining Partner
You are very, very, very lucky. That rig would have gone over the side. The correct way to do the bulkhead repair is to replace it completely. Unless the boat is a complete basket case its the right thing to do. Reverse carpentry is not a difficult thing to do. A good Sawzall, Fein Multimaster, select prybars and thin wedges it will all come apart. Remove the fiberglass repair and install a new full bulkhead. Treat the new wood with several coats of CPES to completely seal it and this won't happen again. What the heck. Theres a long Canadian winter ahead of you. What else were you planning on doing? :) RT
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Remove the fiberglass repair and install a new full bulkhead. Treat the new wood with several coats of CPES to completely seal it and this won't happen again. What the heck. Theres a long Canadian winter ahead of you. What else were you planning on doing? :) RT

Well, according to one author... some of them drink a bit of "Screech" to get them through those winters...
(sorry, someone had to say it!)
:egrin:

LB
 
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tenders

Innocent Bystander
If you're digging out the lower part of that bulkhead, frankly I'd just keep cutting down the inboard vertical slice that the PO already made and replace the current fractionally-assed fiberglass piece with a single, larger, properly-sized piece.

I guess I disagree with rwthomas1 that only a basketcase boat merits a spliced-in bulkhead repair. To me it's more likely that only a showpiece boat really merits a complete bulkhead replacement. I still think getting that whole bulkhead out of there and a new one back in will prove to be an order of magnitude more work and time for a disproportionately small amount of additional strength and aesthetic value. More disassembly, bigger and hard-to-maneuver replacement pieces, more complicated shape to cut, more complex stresses on the unsupported boat, higher cost of a mistaken cut. Materials expense has almost no bearing. If the rest of the boat is pristine, clearly a complete replacement the right thing to do...but I doubt it is, and you already said you're in over your head and it sounds like there's a lot of other stuff left to do.

As you're realizing, even a free boat is not necessarily a bargain. However, keep in mind that a good boat is priceless.

PS, please check your other chainplates and standing rigging! How likely is it that the boat was only sailed/stressed like that on port tack?!?
 

Gary Peterson

Marine Guy
In my opinion I would replace the complete bulkhead. Rig stress in this area is high. You could probably install it in two pieces with the horizontal cut line above the line that the cabin rises above the side deck. Tab that joint with another partial bulkhead.
Just trying to add another opinion.
:egrin:
 

tenders

Innocent Bystander
Rig stress high, but fiberglass, epoxy, bolts, strong. Stronger than wood, even.

Unless you have an extraordinarily liberal policy, insurance will almost certainly not cover rot.
 

jthistle

Member II
Work is Underway

Thanks for all opinions. I think I'm going to get started on a big bottle of Screech - (Loren you welcome to join me - :egrin: ) and replace about 1/2 of the bulkhead. I'll then glass the heck out of all of it. I Tied the stays with the jacklines and spare halyard to keep the mast up - should be fine.

I removed the settee back as well as all of the teak strips along the hull. This is gonna be a biggee. Any advice, symapthy cards...encouragement spare biax or rum is appreciated. Will post pics as available.

all the best
Jason
1972 e35 #268
 

tenders

Innocent Bystander
Please take lots of photos and post them. When I was looking for this kind of information last year I didn't find very much.
 

jthistle

Member II
Bulkhead reinforced

Here is the snap of my bulkhead replacement. Its a little rough now but I figure its gonna be the strongest part of the boat when I'm done. I scarfed in a piece of plywood that painted with a couple of coats of epoxy. Its tabbed 4" and then 8" Biax to the remaining pieces of original bulkhead and FRP as well as to the sides and bottom of the Hull - (with a little fillet on the settee for good measure)


Now the fairing process - begins. I'll likely use a skin of 1/8 finish ply to cover the job....then I have to get that chainplate off and have a new pair made.

This is alot of work but I can't see another way. There's no way to put the bulkhead back - in one piece so a vertical scarf seemed to be the answer. It aint ever gonna break I know that. Now just gotta make it look pretty.
IMG_2031.jpg

IMG_2179.jpg

I'll have lots more questions as I embark on this project. I'll keep the pics coming if you guys promise not to laugh and keep helping me out.

Cheers

Jason
1972 E35 - #268
 

exoduse35

Sustaining Member
well?

haven't seen any updates. Hope it is going well. you should be able to get a "factory finish" look by covering the entire wall with a mahogany veneer. www.woodworkerssource.net will be a good place to get it at a very reasonable cost. it can be cut easily from a template outside the boat, rolled up and then laminated in place with good contact cement little varnish and it's miller time! good luck :egrin:
Edd & Debi
exoduse35
 

jthistle

Member II
Still Working

Thanks for the encouragment! Yup...I'm still at it and had a new chainplate made 304 stainless 5/8 of an inch. Its one sturdy piece of metal. The boat is on the hard with the mast and rigging down. Working on some deck projects now and replacing all hoses - prepping bilges for paint and rebedding hardware. I'll try to send more pics when the time is right. Big project one piece at time - interrupted by gainfull employement.

cheers
Jason

1972 E35-2 #268
 

exoduse35

Sustaining Member
sorry you found a job

From the looks of things you already had plenty of work. Employment sure eats into sail boat time, I hope you don't let it become too big of a habit. Best of luck. I'll keep an eye on this thread so if you get stuck on something I can help you through it. Cant help with that time thing though, it seems to be a pretty tough nut to crack & better men than me have failed to solve it.
Edd & Debi
Exoduse 35
 

skipper007

Member II
2 big projects underway

Jason,
Just saw this post too - man you are a glutant. My wife had the classic quote last night at dinner - the boat is your hobby not your career. Every night I've been trying to figure out how to make it a profession.......ha ha

You made a comment about G10 on the bilge project too. I'd really look into it. It doesn't rot - is solid and would save you any future work. McMaster has it - let me know if you need help locating it. My 3/8"x24x24 sheet was $150 delivered next day - to give you an idea.......
Skip
 
new chainplate info

Hi, Hopefully this project is nearing an end? I'm considering replacing my chainplates as a survey showed one to need replacing. Can you suggest a source for these? What was the price like? Thanks, Chris
 

jthistle

Member II
chainplates

Hi Chris.

I paid about $100 to have the chainplate made - I think you could get cheaper but I went with a full 5/8 of an inch - total overkill and over spec for the plate. I found a fabricator and brought the old one in. They did a super job - polished and all. Had it made in an afternoon. 316 stainless is certainly the best but 304 will do the job if you keep it clean and shiny - its way easier to find. I think it was Guy's quote (correct me if I'm wrong) he suggested doing a float test on the chainplates every 10 years...throw them overboard....if they float they're ok to use - good advice:).

cheers
Jason
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