INSURANCE (Combined threads)

I just received a quote from BoatUS to insure a 1985 30+. They apparently had no problem insuring an almost 24 year old boat and did not mention anything about it when I spoke with them. They did require a survey that had to have been done within the past 18 months.

That's good news. Maybe they have relaxed their policies.

Underwriting Rules

Marine Insurance premiums just like underwriting rules are very cyclic. When these insurance companies are making money the rules/ age limitations get flexible. After the "Katrina" / hurricane hit of several years ago the marine insurers became very restrictive to clean up their underwriting book. Once they turn the corner and are back in the "black" and want to increase premium revenue they obviously have to open the doors again.

Lloyds is not an insurance company

Many people don't know that Lloyds is not an insurance company. It is a collection of Syndicates on the floor of an exchange where risks are purchased for a premium.

There are many different methods of this, some are done by "treaties" and some actually "go to the floor" in London.

The real issue is how claims are paid, often times the syndicates ( often families) have to fork over the money. If there is a catastrophe and the syndicates get wiped out, or just decide to be obstinate, it can delay your payment or the repair of your vessel.

These are issues you need to look at when deciding on saving a few hundred dollars.

Boat US

Nothing but good things to report on Boat US Insurance. We haven't had any claims so I can't comment directly on that but their customer service is excellent.

To extend our coverage to include the Bahamas (to Grand Turk Island) they charged me $100 more than the standard US east coast and Gulf of Mexico policy. Then when we hauled out and stored on the hard for hurricane season they gave me a close to a $200 rebate (almost paid for the haulout). Since we've had them for over 5 years (with no claims) on our 1983 E-38, they now give us the good customer discount.

When I've called about questions concerning non-standard items they refer me directly to an underwriter to resolve my issue.

When hurricane Wilma hit our haul-out facility (Indiantown Marina) a couple of years back, everyone I talked to that had Boat US was very happy with their claims; Not so from folks dealing with other companies. Fortunately, we didn't get damaged but over 30 boats out of 300+ stored here, got knocked over, some with severe damage.

Further, a few years ago we shopped a bit and got a really good discount rate with an outfit called "Blue Water" insurance. To keep it short, (it's a long sad tale) we never did get a policy from Blue Water and so after hurricane Wilma, (we were likely uninsured from September through November that year) we called Boat US and got our old policy back and cancelled the BW deal (got screwed for $800 in the process) No survey beyond our original either for the reinstatement.

Decision Made-Stay with BoatUS

Well folks, after hearing nothing but good reports about BoatUS I have decided to stay with them. To save only a hundred bucks or so it is not worth the trouble to change anyhow. Although I have had no claims I did start, then cancel one for a damaged main sail, and BoatUS did seem pretty easy to work with. Thanks for all the thoughtful posts and much food for thought.

Rising insurance costs on older boats?

I recently got my annual bill from State Farm for Pronto (a 1988 E26-300) for $415 (same as last year).

I did some comparison shopping using the same insurance coverage details (Agreed value, 300k liability, no personal items & $500 Deductable) and was surprised at the results:

United Marine @ $374
Progressive @ $629
Geico @ $648 and 10% deductable! (includes multi policy discount!)
Boat US @ $157 with $800k Spill insurance included

I friend at my marina suggested that a number of insurance companies have recently been trying not to insure older boats by charging much higher premiums. Has anybody else had this experience?

Pat

But wait, there's more!

We may want to add this request to this older related thread.
http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/showthread.php?t=7454&referrerid=28

Or these.
http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/showthread.php?t=6892&referrerid=28

http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/showthread.php?t=5087&referrerid=28

Maybe.

Put "insurance" into the search box. Lots of threads to wander through. For saving in a more concise form use the archive feature ("show printable version") under Thread Tools.

Loren

Good Point Loren !

Now, How to add?

Pat

SurabyaKid said:

United Marine @ $374
Progressive @ $629
Geico @ $648 and 10% deductable! (includes multi policy discount!)
Boat US @ $157 with $800k Spill insurance included

Click to expand...

That is an impressive range of costs. Is that for the same valuation of the boat and the same skipper experience !?


-Sven

Yes it was for the same valuation (yacht policy = agreed value) and my experience & claims history.

I asked Boat US how they did it, and they said they only insure boats and have a good understanding of how to do it. They did require a self survey and pictures of the boat as a condition of the quote. I did both and had an acceptance within four hours of submitting the info electronically.

It seems Boat US has a good reputation, so I will go with them.

Pat

Insurer-Required Survey

I hope that no one minds extending this existing insurance thread. BoatUS is mentioned several times, and several years ago we switched to BoatUS to save quite a bit on the annual premium.
When we signed up I asked about whether a survey was required and offered to submit my recent one (from the company that raised our rates a lot).
They said that we did not need one, but that they can demand a random survey from a given pool of insureds. If selected, they would pay the cost of survey. Interesting.

Fast forward to the present, and a friend of mine is about to have his boat surveyed for BoatUS, and he will not be out-of-pocket any for the cost. He got their notice and agreed (of course he would have the option of changing companies if he did not want to be "inspected").

One thing that I had not thought about before was the "ownership" of said survey. As the purchaser, BoatUS will own it, and will not share a copy without his paying them back. They would share it if the surveyor found any issues that needed correcting, is his understanding.

The irony here is that his boat is one of the best-maintained boats in our entire moorage.

As you might suspect, this will be an in-water survey. BoatUS must be keeping their $ outlay to a reasonable minimum.

And that's the news.

Loren

About 1990 +/- BoatUS had my previous boat surveyed. I had owned it for 10 years +/- at that time, all of it with BoatUS. While I had been notified when the boat was in the water, the surveyor contacted me long after the boat had been hauled. I took a day off from work and joined him for the survey. It didn't bother him that lots of essential equipment was missing such as all electronics and fire extinguishers. I don't remember him spending any time sounding the hull or deck. He said that the main reason for the survey was to verify that there really was a boat. He told me stories about many insured boats that had disappeared prior to sinking.

The surveyor wouldn't send me a copy and I got the same story from BoatUS as your friend. If I paid for the whole survey I could have a copy. I quickly declined.

This 2017 article covers the huge change to BoatUS insurance. In July I called an agent about our August renewal. I asked specifically if Geico and BoatUS were differentiated, and was told firmly that no, they are the same company,

Further, in about 2017, BoatUS arbitrarily lowered our "Agreed Value" and I only caught the change after months passed by studying our renewal form. I should have read it closely when the premium was auto-paid. I then called an agent and after a pointed conversation about the legal meaning of "agreed" they restored our insured value, and apoligised.

This year the same thing happened, but I caught it quickly and called. This avoids being outright fraud, IMHO, because some small print in the renewal invites me to call if I have any "questions" about coverage.
This year I needed to increase the Agreed Value anyway and forwarded my new survey. Got a quick reply with a new value of a small part of the new value reflected. Knowing that they now will be sneaky every year and try to lower it again I went shopping.

Upon a recommendation I contacted a major marine insurance broker and they provided a quote within a day. Since the cost per thousand was lower than I was paying with Geico, I made the change and now have a binder in hand. Actual company is Travelers, by the way.

My broker (sounds so impressive to call him "my" broker.... !) sez that industry gossip is that Geico is slowly slowly backing out of insuring boats. Quietly.
Looks like BoatUS will remain as an 'advocate' for boaters and probably offer towing insurance. As for the later, they took our payment for towing this year, and I just found out by accident from a friend that needed a tow that they no longer have a tow operation in Portland. I do not know if this is a temporary glitch, or not. For about 20 years they had a top notch guy here doing this work. He's gone.

Oh yeah, "40 is the new 20"....
Yup, I made that one up.

Several insurers I contacted did say that their companies preferred not to insure any boat over 40 years old, for NEW customers. No problem for existing customers, no matter what age of boat, i.e. they are 'grandfathered in'.
Further there is at least one specialty company for insuring older boats (and cars). Haggerty Ins. https://www.hagerty.com/insurance/boat-insurance/yacht-insurance/

If I have misunderstood some insurance details, do let me know.
The last month, insurance wise, has been a bit stressful.

I pay GEICO/BoatUS $460. Agreed Value is 28,100. That includes BoatUS Membership and towing.

Following. I received an email earlier this year from my insurance broker saying:

"We are writing to let you know that Geico Marine has decided to stop offering boat insurance through its entire marine agency network. Therefore you will receive a non-renewal notice directly from Geico Marine approximately 60 days prior to your policy expiration date. A sample of the non-renewal letter is attached"

Interested in knowing if this is true for all GEICO boat coverage, or if I should take it personally....

Thanks Bruce. That certainly puts some muscle in what was previously just a 'rumor'.
This could be, insurance wise, the "end of an era".

Just found this:
"As of May 24th, 2021, GEICO Marine no longer distributes its boat and yacht insurance products through independent agents and brokers. Beginning with policies expiring on September 21st, 2021, all policies will eventually receive notices of non-renewal."

If I understand correctly GEICO will still offer coverage through BoatUS.

I guess that explains a few "Pan Pan" calls I've heard recently, asking for anyone able to offer a tow. I believe one of them even mentioned that cash was offered. It seems like constant vigilance is required to avoid paying for coverages and services that are not available in the area.

Just one more detail to work into my putative retirement plan, as my current insurance (only available to Farm Bureau members) will go away if I sell up.