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decision decision

EGregerson

Member III
I'd like to get some input from our forum on a pending decision that has me going back and forth. My boat, an '87 E34 that i got in July, was damaged by Ernesto; BoatUS insurance has determined that it's a total loss. To look at it's not that bad but....the serious part of it is separation of the joint between the hull and deck from port amidships to the bow. The other damage is mostly superficial; railing etc. A local marina gave me a written estimate (which i hope is woefully overblown) of $64,000. I understand I can buy the boat back and repair it (given that i can find a fiberglass man who will work well at reasonable cost); one problem is BoatUS will not re-insure the boat even after a surveyor declares it 'seaworthy'. However it looks like USAA will. So the question becomes, can the boat be repaired at reasonable cost to a proper condition? I've attached a pic of the joint; it appears that removing some of the interior trim will reveal the joint and provide access to sufficient surface area to glass it in properly. If you folks have experience with this sort of this I'd sure love to hear it. thanx Eric
 

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Emerald

Moderator
It's really really hard to make a call on this without seeing it first hand. From the picture, it looks repairable. It's the type of thing though, were you might find you need to learn how to do this instead of paying for it, just because the hours could grow quickly when you are paying yard rates.

Is there damage to the hull itself, or just the joint? Did the fiberglass get crushed/fibers broken from muliple hits -can you push and flex on this part of the hull with your hands, and if so, how does it compare with the other side?


Here's a couple links to epoxyworks magazine - sponsored by West Systems ( http://www.westsystem.com/ ) . There is some great information here, and it might help you make a call on what you think you can do and how to approach it:


http://www.epoxyworks.com/


http://www.epoxyworks.com/indexprojects.html


Worries for me would extend to selling the boat in the future. Will the title be labled forever "Salvage", and be a burden? This would be sad, but needs to be figured out. The fact that USAA will insure it with a good survey is a good sign.
 
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EGregerson

Member III
Thanks David; the hull is in good shape surprisingly. The cove stripe has a scrape or two but no where is the hull bashed in. I keep thinking this could turn out well if i get a good repair on the joint, and then take care of the railing and rub rail etc myself; but i've got this nagging feeling that it could be a money / time pit. And your point about the resale value with some sort of salvage title is well taken.
 

CaptnNero

Accelerant
I...So the question becomes, can the boat be repaired at reasonable cost to a proper condition? ...

Since this is a big ticket item the only safe way to go is to get a bunch of competent wriitten bids on the project and that process will shed more light. The first estimate obviously is along the lines of BoatUS's view. You'll need references for those bidders too.

Unfortunately BoatUS probably knows what they are looking at. I do hope that their settlement offer is reasonable so if you need to you can get out clean after purchasing so recently in July. The fact that insurability is an issue is scary for future resale. That seems to be quite a liability.

Eric, sorry to hear that you've had such a problem and best of luck to you as you proceed.
 

EGregerson

Member III
estimates...

This is what makes sense. But I've found the local marinas that will give a written estimate want $400 - 500 just for the estimate (to cover the costs of their time). And they appear to high ball the bid. This leaves the rest who just charge their rate per hour plus materials. I'd hate to see this become a 1 year diy project, altho that would be a healthy chunk of change in my pocket! Don't know how sound / pretty the finished product would be. When you look down the side of the side of the boat, you can see it waffle in and out a little where the stands support the hull. I'd like to put it in the water to equalize the pressure on the hull. This kind of thing opens pandora's box of wild possibilities; the things that can suck you in one little step at a time. And I suspect the repair facilities know that and explains why their estimates are so high. Like you said; Boat US knows what they're looking at.
 

Emerald

Moderator
One of my biggest concerns here is what you can't see. A little waiver in the hull sighting down it is somewhat "normal" if you start looking at boats really hard. I am not an expert on this particular boat's construction, but I believe it uses the TAFG concept which means if it is not supported properly on stands, it would be very easy to make the side push in where an incorrectly placed stand is. I say this as the grid was designed to take the load with a lighter skin, versus a boat like Emerald which is heavy layup everywhere. Seth and others, please correct me if I am wrong about improper stand placement causing flex in the hull skin on these boats.


But back to the hidden stuff. You probably need to inspect both sides of the boat. The smashing which tore the seam apart had lots of force, and it was transferred someplace. Some of that force was dissipated in the damage that is readily apparent, but there may be tabing on the bulkhead on the starboard side which has separated because this hit was transferred across. Looking at the picture you posted, the brunt of the damage is at the beamiest point, next to chain plates. These bulkheads need to be looked at very carefully. Also, how does all this tie to the grid in the boat? Has something shifted? Is it all in alignment? You might be able to figure out a lot of this by careful measurement, but then again....

Somewhat thinking out loud here, so read the above accordingly as a starting point for more thinking. As hard as it is, leave the emotions of your baby out of it. What will insurance give you and can you buy another Ericson that fits your needs, or is there something intrinsic in this boat that to you has greater value? Make the decision on it as a commodity, and you will do better in the long run.


Hope some of this helps, and this really does go into the "sucks" category. Sorry that you are going through all this.
 
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CaptnNero

Accelerant
... And I suspect the repair facilities know that and that explains why their estimates are so high. Like you said; Boat US knows what they're looking at.

I originally said it's unfortunate that BoatUS is totalling, but really it's fortunate if you get a good settlement. That's what insurance is for. You paid for that privilege. You can take the money and start kicking keels again. In this case Don't Worry, mon, be happy ;)

If you go the other route and try a DIY, you're off the water for a while, you're committing yourself to hard labor for a while, you're assuming risk for coming out well financially, and then you still have that resale issue probably with a salvage title over your head. That may cost you 10-15% on resale someday plus slower sale process, regardless of the repair quality.

You know you're on the skinny side of the season now for VA so you don't really need to get your whole sailing act together until next spring. I usually think hard about big decisions for a day or so and then again before I go to sleep. The next morning the right decision is clear for me.

Whatever you do Eric, sweet dreams ;)
 

rssailor

Moderator
Repairs

First off, have you had a competent surveyor who is very familiar with fiberglass repair look at the boat? Second, I would dispute Boat US totalling your boat if you can find a competent yard or other repair place to fix the boat for less than what the boat is worth. If I was you, try and get at least two other repair estimates and see if you can negotiate the cost of the estime down to less than 400-500 bucks. You really need info and advice from an expert who is on your side to make an informed decision on repairing or not repairing this boat. Good luck and keep us informed as to what happens. Ryan
 

hcpookie

Member III
A few thoughts.

You said USAA *will* insure the boat? Then you are covered... anyone who uses USAA would still be able to have the boat insured, right?

I would shell out for at least one more survey - from a competent source - and talk with some fiberglass folks.

Heck, $500 ***is*** $500, but it may end up saving you $5,000 or more... if they find an as-yet-undiscovered issue, then it was $500 well spent, vs. you investing time and money only to find the same problem a few months from now. I walked away from a boat purchase after shelling out the survey bucks... glad I did too, it was a serious hull delamination issue that would have been that money pit you described... this boat was in fact a hurricane Isabell survivor, and while the outside didn't look too bad (less damage than your photo), the accumulation of water in the hull (in only one year!) caused a nice and spongy deck and hull... NOT PRETTY.

The moral of my story is that your boat may have had enough flexing and banging to delaminate years-old adhesives that will cause pockets where moisture will freely flow. Lots of time and money to fix that particular boat, and then you STILL have the "we won't insure it" problem!

A cost-effective idea: Assuming it is superficial damange, and depending on your situation, you may be able to trailer this and park it in your backyard or a lot somewhere that you can easily work on it over the course of a year. It would save you yard costs and the inconvenience of travelling to the boat just to work on it.

Is BoatUS giving you a compensation of an adequate amount for the boat? If so, you should consider just scrapping this for a tax write-off and re-invest in a new boat. This time of year is a good time to look for boats. If you can donate it to a charity, you can get a tax write-off on it.
 

NateHanson

Sustaining Member
Second, I would dispute Boat US totalling your boat if you can find a competent yard or other repair place to fix the boat for less than what the boat is worth.

I'm not sure you ever want to suggest to your insurer that their settlement offering is too high. They just might decide to see it your way. My gut on this is that the hidden damage could really haunt you. Wet decks, squeeky bulkheads, and a vague uneasiness when the wind pipes up and you start wondering if the surveyor found all the damage.

If BoatUS is giving you a fair settlement, and you can get away clear, then I'd do it. Go shopping.

Nate
 

treilley

Sustaining Partner
I have my policy setup with Amica that allows me to set a price for total loss. If my boat were totalled tomorrow, I would know exactly what the settlement would be(minus ded of course). BTW, Amica is the best insurer out there for auto, home, yacht etc. They are not cheap but they go above and beyond and I have never had a complaint.

During the ice storm a few years back, they actually called me to ask me how much food I had lost from our 3 day power outage. Of course we lost none because it was 25 degrees outside and I simply put the food on the back porch. I also had a car totalled about 10 years ago and they offered me a settlement that I thought was low so I showed them that the car was in much better condition then the miles and years indicated and they gave me a few thousand more.

Not affiliated with them in any way, just wanted to share a company that truly still puts it's customer's satisfaction above the bottom line.
 
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