Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 20

Thread: Bootstripe or No Bootstripe?

  1. #1
    Glenn McCarthy
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    56

    Bootstripe or No Bootstripe?

    While we have made the decision, just like to toss it to ya'all to hear your answers. The bootstripe was high at the bow, and low at the back end. I'm taking it off to raise it at the back end (it turns green and slimly in summer) and lower it at the bow, so it is parallel to the waterline. Leave it off and have the bottom paint end at the white topside paint, or put a new bootstripe on once the new "level" is ascertained?

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	DSC02550.jpg 
Views:	18 
Size:	101.4 KB 
ID:	28114Click image for larger version. 

Name:	DSC02549.jpg 
Views:	18 
Size:	99.3 KB 
ID:	28115Click image for larger version. 

Name:	DSC02548.jpg 
Views:	18 
Size:	119.6 KB 
ID:	28116
    Glenn McCarthy, Chicago
    1976 Ericson 35 MkII "Eleven"

  2. #2
    Curator of Broken Parts toddster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Oregon - The Gorge
    Posts
    1,700
    Blog Entries
    55
    I “raised” mine a bit last year when I put on new bottom paint - with mixed success. (Sounds better than failure...) The starboard side waterline was right at the stripe, but due to the slight port list (and all the crap I have on board) the port side waterline was slightly into the stripe.

    Lessons learned:
    The boot stripe (on my boat) is a transparent gel coat that seems particularly blister-prone, once submerged. If it is going to be “wet,” then the first thing to do is barrier-coat it. But when I stripped the hull down six years ago, I only ran the barrier coat up to the bottom of the stripe.
    The bottom paint that I used doesn’t seem to stick particularly well to the stripe material. It’s already flaking off. Again, probably should have been barrier coated.
    s/v arcturus E29 #134

  3. #3
    Contributing Member III
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Cabrillo
    Posts
    54
    I think the bigger question is why isn't the boat on her marks? Is the laz loaded with heavy gear? Can some of it be relocated forward to get her sitting right? The factory boot stripe is where Bruce King specified and I suggest squatting at the stern is affecting your performance.

  4. #4
    Moderator Christian Williams's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    4,244
    Blog Entries
    78
    My factory boot is now covered in bottom paint, which keeps the white just above water. (There's a factory molded line that ought to have been ground off, because you can see it).

    Boats today seem to have much higher bottom paint lines than in the '80s. Live and learn.
    Thelonious II, E381 hull 513 (1984) Universal 5432
    Table of Contents for Thelonious Blog here
    Videos: http://www.youtube.com/c/ChristianWilliamsYachting

  5. #5
    Glenn McCarthy
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    56
    Quote Originally Posted by toddster View Post
    I “raised” mine a bit last year when I put on new bottom paint - with mixed success. (Sounds better than failure...) The starboard side waterline was right at the stripe, but due to the slight port list (and all the crap I have on board) the port side waterline was slightly into the stripe.

    Lessons learned:
    The boot stripe (on my boat) is a transparent gel coat that seems particularly blister-prone, once submerged. If it is going to be “wet,” then the first thing to do is barrier-coat it. But when I stripped the hull down six years ago, I only ran the barrier coat up to the bottom of the stripe.
    The bottom paint that I used doesn’t seem to stick particularly well to the stripe material. It’s already flaking off. Again, probably should have been barrier coated.
    The prior owner did a lot of projects to the boat, a few well, and most poorly. He moved the bootstripe, I have no idea what his logic is. We race the boat, so there is little "stuff" stored in the boat.
    Glenn McCarthy, Chicago
    1976 Ericson 35 MkII "Eleven"

  6. #6
    Curator of Broken Parts toddster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Oregon - The Gorge
    Posts
    1,700
    Blog Entries
    55
    No idea if it’s relevant to your boat, but one reason that my waterline came up is that a PO (who allegedly did race) added ballast by filling in the hollow aft part of the keel with... some material. (I’d have to drill a core sample to figure out exactly what it is. I’m guessing lead shot poured into Bondo, or something like.) This also shifted COG aft a bit.

    https://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoex...an-s-Underwear
    https://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoex...-Back-In-Black
    Last edited by toddster; 11-25-2019 at 10:04 PM.
    s/v arcturus E29 #134

  7. #7
    Glenn McCarthy
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    56
    Thought I'd make a game of this, not working out.

    My Dad, sister and I could argue over the color of summer grass. In the shortest discussion ever, all three immediately agreed that:
    Without the bootstripe, the boat looks:
    Bigger
    More modern
    More powerful
    Cleaner

    And I will add, save me a metric s-ton of work putting a new one on.

    We go without a bootstripe in 2020.

    Twice on Sunday, I walked away from the boat to the head, and to my car, and both times walked passed the boat not recognizing it without the red stripe. The change is dramatic.
    Glenn McCarthy, Chicago
    1976 Ericson 35 MkII "Eleven"

  8. #8
    Senior Moderator Loren Beach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    Portland, OR. Columbia River
    Posts
    7,737
    Blog Entries
    66

    Cool

    Simplest Solution. prevails... again....!
    "Occam's Razor".

    He would have approved!
    1988 Olson 34 #8
    Sail # 28400
    Betamarine 25 (new 2018)
    Fresh Air
    Portland, OR USA

  9. #9
    Contributing Partner
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    Georgian Bay, Ontario
    Posts
    182
    "The factory boot stripe is where Bruce King specified and I suggest squatting at the stern is affecting your performance. "
    My 35-2 is also noticeably low at the stern and not loaded. I do not know why. I was going to move tanks (new ones needed anyway) to the bow to offset the squat but I do remember several threads by Seth who commented that these boats do not do well with weight forward and it seriously affects sailing performance. I must confess I do not know what to do : |
    (and whatever happened to Seth anyway..? )
    1978 35-2, Atomic 4
    Crystal Current

  10. #10
    Contributing Member III
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Cabrillo
    Posts
    54
    Quote Originally Posted by garryh View Post
    I was going to move tanks (new ones needed anyway) to the bow to offset the squat but I do remember several threads by Seth who commented that these boats do not do well with weight forward and it seriously affects sailing performance
    If you ever try relocating equipment or stores to get the boat on her marks, you may have to adjust the mast rake in the new hull attitude. I wonder if Seth's comments on performance considered that.

  11. #11
    Innocent Bystander tenders's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Harlem Yacht Club, City Island, NY
    Posts
    1,110
    When I moved to a Hudson River mooring about 20 years ago it became burdensome to maintain the bootstripe every single winter after it would get scraped and banged up every year on the mooring hardware. Raised the bottom paint to cover the bootstripe. I've since moved to much calmer waters, but I never missed the bootstripe, and never looked back (or down).
    1969 Ericson 32 #112 • Atomic Four
    City Island, NYC
    “Muxie Duxer”
    Hair by Mr. Gigi

  12. #12
    Contributing Member Joliba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Waukegan
    Posts
    231

    Salt water vs. fresh water

    I believe Bruce King had salt water in mind when he designed these boats and their intended waterlines. Many of us sail in fresh water... which changes the picture. This article relates one non-Ericson sailor’s experience.
    https://www.riggingdoctor.com/life-a...vs-fresh-water
    Mike Jacker
    1988 E38-200
    Universal 5432

  13. #13
    Advanced Beginner bgary's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Everett, WA
    Posts
    1,362
    Blog Entries
    23
    Quote Originally Posted by Joliba View Post
    fresh water... which changes the picture.
    It does.... but not dramatically.

    Salt water is about 2% more dense than fresh water.... which means that (taking for example) a boat that displaces 10,000 pounds, in fresh water it would be "deeper" by about the same amount as if it displaced 2% more (i.e., as if you'd added 200 lbs of fuel or gear or people, distributed equally around the boat). Not likely it would be noticed unless you were really looking for it.

    (**) note, that's not the real math, thats an approximation. The real math would involve the area of the LWL waterplane and would give you a number the yacht designers call "pounds per inch immersion" (PPI, more commonly called "sink"), which is the number of pounds required to sink a boat 1" below its lines. If I use 150 sq-ft as a guess for the waterplane area of my Ericson 32-III, it would take 795 lbs to sink my boat an inch deeper in salt water, versus 780 lbs to sink it an inch deeper in fresh water.

    Flipping that around, if I put 795 lbs of stuff on my boat, it'd sink an inch deeper in salt water, and 1.02" (795/780) deeper in fresh water. Again, not a difference that would likely be noticed.

    For-sure not the 3" in that article...

    If you want to geek out on the numbers, there's a good starting point here: http://tedbrewer.com/yachtdesign.html

    $.02
    Bruce
    "Makana" (ex-Thelonious)
    1985 Ericson 32-III #604
    Makana blog: here

  14. #14
    Curator of Broken Parts toddster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Oregon - The Gorge
    Posts
    1,700
    Blog Entries
    55
    I figure the order of magnitude of the FW/SW waterline change should be a little more than an inch for 30-ish foot Ericsons. As Doc Brown says, "If my calculations are correct..."

    One long winter night, I set up a spreadsheet for my boat, to calculate the various performance ratios, as a function of cargo. It was tied to a speculative manifest spreadsheet with the weight (known or guessed) of various additions, cruising gear & consumables. And some rule-of-thumb I found for the prismatic coefficient. Anyhow, I figured that it takes about 700 lbs to raise my waterline an inch. Empirical evidence suggests that this is within the realm of reality. I decided to ignore the freshwater/saltwater thing, but hypothetically, it means that the 700 lbs would raise the waterline 11/16 inch instead, in temperate sea water.

    Put another way, the boat (empty) should float 32 mm (1 1/4") higher in sea water, which would put the (original) boot stripe high and dry all around, despite the resting list. Or 42 mm (1 5/8") higher with the maximum amount of cruising and diving stuff and provisions that I can imagine (but still 2" down). Which would be about the place where I attempted to re-draw the boot stripe.

    Doesn't seem to make a difference as far as waterline trim, that I can see, however. The list disappears if I sit on the starboard settee. Or fill the water tank and hang the kayak on the starboard rail.

    Oops. Beat me to it. Interesting that we come up with similar numbers. Great minds think alike?

    edit again: rule of thumb from Wikipedia article on Plimsol lines: The freshwater line should be (D/4T)mm above the temperate seawater line, where D is displacement in metric tons and T is the immersion in cm/ton at that draft.
    Last edited by toddster; 11-27-2019 at 07:26 PM.
    s/v arcturus E29 #134

  15. #15
    Curator of Broken Parts toddster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Oregon - The Gorge
    Posts
    1,700
    Blog Entries
    55
    Oops. I forgot to plug in the "4." You're right - it's less than half an inch difference.
    s/v arcturus E29 #134

Similar Threads

  1. E35-3 - Waterline Off or To The Bootstripe?
    By Sean Engle in forum Design & Function
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 07-06-2002, 12:37 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •