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Couple of electrical questions if you please?

Kenneth K

1985 32-3, Puget Sound
Blogs Author
I have a Cole Hersee BP 24-series relay in my parts box, waiting to be installed, so I've been following this thread.

On a different note, it seems I read somewhere that the relay is supposed to be installed "upside down" (the larger, flanged & stamped end of the body facing downward) but I can't find this anywhere now. Anyone else ever hear this?
 

supersailor

Contributing Partner
Dan, I always thought a "tin kicker" should be called a tin bleeder. As an old General Contractor, my hands always looked like mincemeat after a tin job. Getting zapped in the electrical area (I thought that circuit was off!) wasen't any better. One little trick I learned was to touch the wire with the back of the hand first. The automatic reaction is to clutch the hand, pulling it away from the wire. My brother, Dan, the electrician, has frizzy hair (perhaps from too many zaaps!).

As a GC, I saw way too many homeowner electrical nightmares including one house that had several rooms wired with two wire extension cords from a single socket. The extension cords were stapled to the baseboards. I didn't repair many fire jobs from these unfortunate wiring jobs as I hated working with insurance companies.

It sounds like you are on the right path here. There are several really good marine reference books that will keep you up with the CG rules. I have them but, after the bad year I had last year, I can't immediately put my hands on them. If it would be useful to you, I'll go out and search for them for you.

Good luck with all the changes. They will improve your boat.
 

Tom Metzger

Sustaining Partner
The power for the glow plugs can be pulled off the hot side of the starter solenoid but that is a less than ideal situation. When the starter is engaged, the circuit is already pulling 21 amps. This means a big voltage drop when the high amperage of the starter (50 amps+) kicks in, the glow plugs dim significantly and the starter spins slower. Also, a lot of heat develops in the wiring. s.

A lesson on Ohm's law: My boat has an M-25XP which has a 1000 watt starter. That's 83 amps @ 12 volts, but it probably uses much less.

Taking the 83 amps + 21 amps = 104 amps. Add say 10 amps for the engine panel since I recommend powering it from the solenoid terminal and we have 114 amps. My boat is wired with 1/0 wire in the starting circuit. 1/0 wire has a resistance of 0.098 ohms/1000 ft. 8 feet of wire would be very generous. Voltage drop is amps x resistance.

114 amps x 8 ft/1000 X 0.98 ohms = 0.09 volts. 0.7% Insignificant. Even with a little drop added for the 1/0 lugs I think we are OK. The voltage drop from the added glow plug current would be 0.016 volts. You wouldn't be able to feel the temperature rise from the 10 watts for 10 seconds.

If we wired the boat with #2 wire the drop would be 0.14 volts. Also not a problem. A note - Catalina wired the C-34 with the same engine with very long #4 battery wires.

The result of all of this BS is that the stud on the starter solenoid is a great place to pick up the 12 volts for the glow plugs. Coming from some other place is also fine, but likely not as convenient and adds to the length of smaller wire.
 

Tom Metzger

Sustaining Partner
One more question for Tom. What the hell is a "gazinta post"? I've grown up here mostly in the west so my Yiddish is a little weak.

Dan - Electrical devices, and plumbing too, I imagine, have at least two terminals: a gazinta and a gozouta terminal. The current gazinta the device and gozouta the device. In the case of the start solenoid the battery side is the gazinta terminal and always has 12 volts on it when the battery switch is on. This is where you connect for the glow plug solenoid. The gozouta terminal connects to the starter motor.

For humans the mouth is the gazinta port and... well you can figure the rest.

You now now most of what I learned in engineering school.

To the best of my knowledge those terms are not Yiddish on the right coast either.
 

Kenneth K

1985 32-3, Puget Sound
Blogs Author
To the best of my knowledge those terms are not Yiddish on the right coast either.

Google credits the term to: "A slang math term that means "goes in to" Made famous be the character Jethro Bodine in the American situation comedy The Beverly Hillbillies. Feb 21, 2017"
 

supersailor

Contributing Partner
Tom, I agree with your calcs. 100%. The problem is that OLM's law does not take into consideration sea fuzz otherwise known as corrosion. You and I maintain our electricals. Many of us don't. When I got Terra Nova, it had a disaster of an electrical system. Besides a tangled mess (mostly professionally done), every terminal was corroded (including all 17 grounds attached to the engine block). I was looking for the least amperage through any circuit possible. The real secret I found was to use tinned wire, shrink fit terminals and di-electric grease. None of those were used before including Ericson.

For everyone, I have found that ground faults are the biggest electric bugaboo in the electrical system and almost all of them are from corrosion. So many of them are from connections made in the bilge. That goes for my vehicles too as I live near the sea.
 

bgary

Advanced Beginner
Blogs Author
: a gazinta and a gozouta terminal.

In software state-management, there are three states to consider: "was-ness", "is-ness" and "ought-ness"

if is-ness isn't the same as ought-ness, something got honked up (<-- that's a technical term)

Bruce
 

Tin Kicker

Sustaining Member
Moderator
In my world it was frequently about letting designers know there was an "oh shit factor" their modeling missed.
 

Soupy sails

Member II
Can't say this thread is without some good dry humor

Business before pleasure, since I'm about to spend some money.

I really appreciate the gentle nudges by both Bob and Tom, okay I guess I can draw my power from the pos. side of the starter solenoid despite the debate, I can see that less wire used is better and I was a little unsure if drawing power from the house bats. would complicate things but I still think it would work okay just make for more wire which I really don't want to do. I don't mind spending the dough if it works but one of the goals is to cut down on all the clutter. Not that I don't appreciate the thinking from Parrot, I might get there eventually since there's so much rewiring to do here and could be that modification will eventually work into my final plan.

You have to admit, was-ness, is-ness and ought-ness is some real mind bending zen stuff but for an old country boy gazinta, gozouta is just pure ass Jethro genius.

Dan
 
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