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Engine Use Poll

Total Engine Hours on my Ericson are:

  • Under 1000

    Votes: 9 22.5%
  • 1000-2000

    Votes: 11 27.5%
  • 2000-3000

    Votes: 14 35.0%
  • 3000-4000+

    Votes: 6 15.0%

  • Total voters
    40

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
It does sound like the prop. But then, the quest for a half-knot more speed is fairly Quixotic in my world. Yes, there is the humiliation, on the five-hour morning motor to Catalina (often no wind in morning), to be passed by 30-footers throwing a bow wave and pushing 6.39 knots. They will get there first. They pull slowly ahead, and guests watch them for hours thinking Thelonious is old and slow and ready for a Viking funeral. Hurry!

I have a sailor prop too, 3-blade, and on the E38 can hit 7 knots in flat water. All it takes is a lot of noise and the transom burying.

I cruise at 6, just because its quieter.

Of course we don't have current here, or tidal schedules to keep. Still, the speed difference doesn't really amount to much if you apply personal cognitive therapy, and it saves the expense of a new propeller.
 

supersailor

Contributing Partner
Hi Christian, The proper pitching has less to do with the extra 1/2 knot than the potential for overheating and wear and tear on the engine. We had an overheat problem with one of our club member's 42 footer. It turned out that his prop was covered with barnacles. A diver removed them and presto the overheat problem disappeared. Overpitching has the same problem. The engine overworks. The XP also sounds better when it is operating in the proper load ranges.
 

HerbertFriedman

Member III
Christian and Bob, thanks for your thoughtful comments. The Previous Owner installed the three bladed fixed prop when he went cruising to Mexico. I am sure based upon the several winning race plaques on the nav table (circa 1990's) that the original owner was into racing and the last thing he would have had is this prop.

The engine seems happy at 2200 rpm, no overheating at all, no smoke our the exhaust so for the time being, I will live with the reduced speed. I will check with a prop shop to get their opinion however.

Again, thanks
 

Tom Metzger

Sustaining Partner
I find it interesting that only 19 people have responded to the survey. Are most boats, like mine and my previous boat, without Hobbs meters?

I have never felt the need for one as I know roughly how much diesel I buy each year and that has always allowed for seasonal (5 month) oil changes.
 

supersailor

Contributing Partner
Hi Tom, I use mine to know when to refuel. The fuel gauge in the 34 is totally useless. That's because there is 14 1/2 gallons in the top 3" of the tank and 1 gallon in the bottom 3". I now have a good fuel sensor system that is very accurate (calibrated for each inch of fuel tank height). Still, like flying an airplane, I don't like to trust the gauge. I know the exact rate of fuel burn at my cruising rpm so I know the time to empty. That means not getting caught running out at a really bad time like running a rapids up here. We all burn fuel at such a slow rate, it is easy to forget the engine burns fuel. The engine hour meter is an accurate way to be safe rather than sorry.

It is also to keep a log of each trip, the # of hours on each trip and engine condition although I am sloppy sometimes with entries.
 

toddster

Curator of Broken Parts
Blogs Author
Oh rats, that reminds me that my fuel gauge is apparently dead. Keep forgetting to investigate...
 

Filkee

Sustaining Member
Unable to Comply

You need to add the option “no clue” in order for me to respond. I know I have bought about 25 gallons of fuel in three years but no idea how many hours the engine has on it. Easily makes 6.5. Can go just a hair faster when I’m trying to outrun a thunderstorm.
 

Bolo

Contributing Partner
B9BC73EA-28AB-4C63-8D9A-D3F852F0F05B.jpg

Here’s what my gauge shows. Previous owner added the “Add 700 hours” label so I’m supposing he replaced it at one time. I’m not even sure if it works but now I’m going to keep and eye on it. It’s tucked back in the corner on the bulk head of our 32-3 above the frig cover. We don’t usually motor much and I’d say that we may put about 10 hours a season on the engine at most.
 

drrhill

Junior Member
1500 or so...

I just bought my 90' 34-2 last month and hauled it for cutlass bearing, bottom paint, and a few of the other items the survey revealed. Hobbs meter shows 600+/- and a second hobbs meter found in the nav table reads 900+/-. This boat has a Yanmar 3GM 30F. I assume she's been re-powered, but have no specifics. When I brought her home to Bellingham from Anacortes she motored at 1800 rpm at about 4 kn. Much more than that and the barnacle'd prop and wobbly loose cutlass bearing created vibration. After dialing it in and a bit of a billfold beatdown at Seaview North boatyard, she purred home yesterday at 2000 rpm at 6 kn. I'm happy. I pushed to 3000 rpm to see what she'd do. 6.9 came with a little vibration. It was apparent that she was much happier at 6 kn. Now to finish that surveyor's list.
 

HerbertFriedman

Member III
your E34 sounds like it was made at Pacific Seacraft and I understand that they switched from the Universal M25XP to a Volvo engine so I agree that the Yanmar sounds like a repower, probably a much better engine than the Volvo.
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
I just bought my 90' 34-2 last month and hauled it for cutlass bearing, bottom paint, and a few of the other items the survey revealed. Hobbs meter shows 600+/- and a second hobbs meter found in the nav table reads 900+/-. This boat has a Yanmar 3GM 30F. I assume she's been re-powered, but have no specifics. When I brought her home to Bellingham from Anacortes she motored at 1800 rpm at about 4 kn. Much more than that and the barnacle'd prop and wobbly loose cutlass bearing created vibration. After dialing it in and a bit of a billfold beatdown at Seaview North boatyard, she purred home yesterday at 2000 rpm at 6 kn. I'm happy. I pushed to 3000 rpm to see what she'd do. 6.9 came with a little vibration. It was apparent that she was much happier at 6 kn. Now to finish that surveyor's list.

A good friend with an '86 E-38-200, has a factory Yanmar. EY generally installed Universal's, but would put in other brands if the buyer wanted. An experienced mechanic might be able to perform an inspection of the whole engine and exhaust and determine if yours is a replacement, but as long as the bolts to the engine beds are solid and it aligns OK, the whole thing is kind of academic now.
Last year, when I replaced our M25XP, my mechanic friends all said the the Betamarine (we installed) was their first choice, and a Yanmar was acceptable. They all sort of rolled their eyes and shuddered when the word "Volvo" was mentioned. :rolleyes:
 

supersailor

Contributing Partner
The interesting thing is that not all Volvos are Volvos. There is a Volvo D-1-13 saildrive in the SJ26 in the yard. The engine is actually a Perkins attached to a Volvo saildrive.
 
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Alan Gomes

Sustaining Partner
The very first boat broker I met in 2015 when I started looking for sailboats made an interesting comment. He said, "You're looking for 50 hours per year on an auxillary diesel. Any more, and that's a problem, any less, and that's a problem too."

Obviously, there's a range. But I thought he made it pretty good point. I was satisfied when I found a 31 year old E32 with 1,900 hours on it. Close enough...
I disagree with this broker. If most of those 50 hours/year were spent idling it to charge batteries, that's quite a diferent matter than if those 50 hours were run under a good load with an appropriately sized prop. Diesels *hate* to be babied. If I could know that the diesel was well maintained with regular oil and filter changes and so forth, and that it was run hard enough, to me the number of hours would be quite secondary (unless they were just horrendously high, which is hard to do on a sailboat).
 
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Alan Gomes

Sustaining Partner
Christian, in flat waters with little wind, I can make about 6.3kt but in some chop and some wind, I have trouble making more than 5.5kt at 2200 rpm, dont know if that is typical or not.

Regarding the tach accuracy, I did buy an optical tack (with a reflective dot pasted on the flywheel) and as I recall the two were within about 100 rpm. So maybe my reading of 2500 rpm at WOT is 2600 but certainly not 3200 or 3300 as I was led to believe.

Regarding the pitch of the diameter and prop do the mavens out there consider that over propped?
Contact a prop shop and they can answer this for you. Be prepared to give them the engine HP, prop diameter, number of blades, max rpm, and transmission gear reduction. They will run some calculations and give you good information.
 

Alan Gomes

Sustaining Partner
Herb, I have never hit seven knots either. Apparently I've come close. My knot meter said 6 1/2. The knot meter is another source of error. I would go with Loren's one every time. The chart plotter can be accurate if you run a course and it's reciprocal and average them. If the tac is reasonably accurate, the lack of ability to reach full RPM would indicate the engine is overloaded and not able to come up to full power. The culprit would be an overpitched prop.

I have a two bladed Michigan Sailor prop. I didn't want the extra drag of a three bladed prop under sail. I bought the 34 to sail, not to diesel around and I sail to the maximum extent possible. I didn't believe the hype that the three blade is so much better under power and I still don't. I would go with a folder except that this marina is "hot" and having a folder eaten away would make me cry.

I really don't know the correct size and pitch for a three blade prop but I would say you are overpitched. As a long time Bay Area sailor, I would say the need for a three blade prop is non existent there.

As I said earlier, I would get the advice from a good prop shop. They take the boat's size, weight and power into consideration. I would say repitching to a 15-7 or even 6 would be in order for you. One thing to remember is the M-25-XP is really minimal power for the E-34 so the prop has to be spot on.
Agreed. And the issue is not just trying to squeak out the last half knot of speed, but running the engine in the part of the torque curve that makes it happy.
 

bgary

Advanced Beginner
Blogs Author
Random datapoint, on the occasion of my annual fill-up-the-tank-before-winter craziness....

Over the past 4 years, I've put 150.3 hours on the Hobbs meter, and consumed 61.9g of fuel. That works out to an average 0.41g/hour, mostly hull-speed motoring at 2200rpm.

The "worst" mileage I've gotten was during the 2018 rendezvous trip... no usable breeze, so motored all the way up to Genoa Bay by way of Port Townsend and Sidney and back down to Roche by way of Plumper Sound. 24.2 hours of motoring over 3 days of travel, almost all at 2200rpm... and top-off in Roche was 11.2g, which works out to ~0.46g/hour

Posted just in case this is a useful tidbit for anyone else with a 32-III/M-25....

Bruce
 
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supersailor

Contributing Partner
Bruce, My consumption worked out to .42 gal per hour. I have pushed the engine fairly hard trying to make the windows for various passes and rapids. That puts owners in the ballpark of what they should be getting. Another advantage of making this calculation is if economy starts dropping, you know something is going wrong with the engine. The calc. sure works on cars (I have five of them).
 

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Right, and even the 4-cylinder U5432 burned only .49 gallons/hour in a 120 hour test, much of it motoring at only 5 knots. Amazing range have our diesels.
 

GrandpaSteve

Sustaining Member
It is great economy if you enjoy traveling on the water. I day sail out of Rock Hall, but if I have to get somewhere like St. Michaels it is wonderful to spend time on the water with the boat sipping fuel. Topping off with 4-5 gallons on my return to Rock hall. All the while having my option to sail if the winds are favorable, and having all of the necessities of life onboard. I love it. Being on the boat, traveling on the water is the goal for me (FYI, St. Michaels is 24 miles one way going through Kent Narrows).
 
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