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Questions about replacing those trailer plugs

Frank Langer

1984 Ericson 30+, Nanaimo, BC
Tom,
I can check the battery switch, it's not hard to do, but I think the problem is more likely in the solenoid or trailer plug. The problem occurs most frequently when the batteries are slightly discharged as opposed to being fully charged on shore power, and I think the extra voltage from the start battery when I switch to both/all is enough to overcome whatever resistance is causing the intermittent start problem. That's why I don't think the battery switch is the cause (along with the fact that it was replaced not long ago).
Frank
 
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Tom Metzger

Sustaining Partner
So that leaves only the trailer plugs as a possible source of resistance and low voltage

Frank - This is from your original post. You still believe it, but still want to retest everything except what is suggested.

Even though they have, presumably, been properly maintained get rid of the trailer connectors and then come back for advice. No, just follow up on the advice already given.
 

Frank Langer

1984 Ericson 30+, Nanaimo, BC
Yes, Tom, that's the plan. Lots of good ideas given. I'll re-read all of them, think it through again, create a logical plan and tackle it bit by bit starting with easiest, most accessible and moving on to the next step, being careful and methodical as I do so.
Frank
 

Kenneth K

1985 32-3, Puget Sound
Blogs Author
Here's an outside thought: Maybe it's not the trailer plugs themselves, but the Dielectric grease.

Capture+_2019-09-05-14-56-03.png

If the grease is raising the resistance, that explains why it would be worse when batteries are in a lower state of charge (after anchoring) than when you're at the dock. Conversely, you wouldn't want to use any type of grease that is conductive, because there are both positive and negative wires in the trailer plug connector. Anything conductive could cause a small current leakage at the trailer plug itself. If they're clean, and in good shape, maybe just wipe them down with alcohol or acetone, and plug them back together dry. Reinspect yearly.

Also, if you are comittted to going after the trailer plugs, why not just go after the wires associated with the starter circuit. I.E. the black/ground, the red/power feed, and the orange or yellow/starter wire? It's not likely that removing the water temp sender wire from the trailer plug will have any effect on your starter circuit.
 
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Frank Langer

1984 Ericson 30+, Nanaimo, BC
Thanks, Ken. I wasn't aware that dielectric grease is non conductive. I'll clean them off really well as you suggest. I'll have to think too about what to do on those trailer plugs - - you're right that most carry very light current....
Mmmmm...
Frank
 

Kenneth K

1985 32-3, Puget Sound
Blogs Author
- - you're right that most carry very light current....
Mmmmm... ��
Frank

I wound up replacing the engine-panel-side trailer plug when I did a complete rewire of the panel.

In the engine compartment, I only cut the large-gauge wires (14-10 ga) out of the trailer connector. I'm still running the alternator excitation, water temp sender, and oil pressure sender circuits through the trailer plug. A quick look at the pins on the plug will tell you that they're probably adequate, if not overkill, for 16-18 gauge wire, as long as they are in good condition.
 
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Kenneth K

1985 32-3, Puget Sound
Blogs Author
Frank,

Regarding my previous post #44:

....just go after the wires associated with the starter circuit. I.E. the black/ground, the red/power feed, and the orange or yellow/starter wire....

In considering your starter circuit, disregard the trailer plug's black/ground wire, as the starter grounds through its metal-to-metal contact with the engine block. The black/ground wire running through the trailer plug is just there to bring the ground out to the engine panel for things like panel gauges and lights, buzzers, the oil pressure light, and the blower if you have one.
 
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eknebel

Member III
"R&R of the starter on a 32-3 is awkward but doable. I wonder if anyone has done it on a 30+? "

I replaced my 30+starter, and I had to remove the alternator to get access. It wasn't bad after that. I got a Kubota starter for $184, and as a bonus, solved a 200 ma current leak that I couldn't track down for years. In hindsight, it was obviously corrosion in the starter "dog" that extends the gear to engage the engine.

if indeed all the connections are good(including the often overlooked engine ground), I vote for the starter over the "trailer plug" since the plug and harness looks ok.
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Diagnosing the problem

You might also do what I did when trouble-shooting our former Universal wiring harness and "trailer plugs". I bought an inexpensive laser pointer temperature reader. These seem to start at about $20.
That's about three fancy Starbucks coffee drinks, for a common cost measurement scale.... :)
Absolute accuracy was not my goal, just comparative temps and I found that not only did each tape-wrapped plug feel a little warmer it actually measured ten degrees higher than ambient wiring beside it.

Since then I have used it to verify temps of various parts of the engine(s) and associated parts.

Heck, you can also point it at other people and if their number is too cold, out them as Zombies.
:D
 

Frank Langer

1984 Ericson 30+, Nanaimo, BC
Thanks, Loren. I do have one of those laser temp gauges, and the trailer plugs were both same temp as surrounding wires and air temp. It's so hard to know if they are ok, given that they are mainly carrying low current. But I'll probably end up replacing them, we'll see. And I'll probably get the solenoid and starter motor serviced too.
Frank
 

Soupy sails

Member II
Frank how did it get resolved?

Frank,

I've finally been able to get back to my boat and I'm in the same boat as you. How did your issue end? Did you get a solution? what was it?

Dan
 

sharonov

Member II
Here's an outside thought: Maybe it's not the trailer plugs themselves, but the Dielectric grease.

View attachment 27712

.......

.
Do not believe everything you see on the Internet. Even though dielectric grease is non-conductive it should be applied to the mating surfaces of the connector. It is counterintuitive but it works. At work we stuff connectors with dielectric grease all the time and never had a problem. Here is an explanation how it works:
https://www.nyelubricants.com/facts-and-myths-on-connector-lubrication
yea, I know, this is from the Internet too ;-)
 

Frank Langer

1984 Ericson 30+, Nanaimo, BC
Dan,
I've been away, so haven't dealt with my issue yet, though it's on the agenda for later this fall. It's not urgent for me as it only happens occasionally, but I will get it resolved.
Frank
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Do not believe everything you see on the Internet. Even though dielectric grease is non-conductive it should be applied to the mating surfaces of the connector. It is counterintuitive but it works. At work we stuff connectors with dielectric grease all the time and never had a problem. Here is an explanation how it works:
https://www.nyelubricants.com/facts-and-myths-on-connector-lubrication
yea, I know, this is from the Internet too ;-)

Thanks! Great link!!
:cool:
 

Soupy sails

Member II
Thanks Frank

Yeah,

I'm not in a huge rush either but since I'm here and have the engine cover off to change the oil. I can see that I do have a trailer plug in the engine compartment. So I was wondering what the outcome was on yours. Our issues sound so similar. Intermittent issues are the worst. Oh and thanks also to the guy that posted the link on the diaelectric grease since I've also used it on the connections in the switch panel.

I'm thinking of going with a terminal block in the engine compartment to replace the trailer plug and an automotive cellinoid to power the glow plugs.

I'm basing this on a conversation I had with an electrician who made these mods on his Catalina which as I understand it is very similar.

Opinions are all welcome but please back them up with reasons.

Dan
 

Frank Langer

1984 Ericson 30+, Nanaimo, BC
Update on progress

Hi,
I had posted previously asking for advice about my very intermittent starting problem. Normally the engine starts fine, but occasionally when I pushed the start button nothing happened - - no cranking, no solenoid sound, just silence. I had cleaned all connections, replaced the start button, tested batteries. My plan based on advice on this site was to replace the trailer plugs in the wiring harness (even though they looked fine) and if the problem arose again, have the solenoid and starter serviced.
Today I completed replacement of the trailer plugs. For those who have not yet done this, it was easier than I anticipated and the result is worth the effort.
I had to remove the alternator to get access to wires to the starter and solenoid to ensure those connections were good and that the wires were run in the most efficient manner to the terminal block that I added in the engine compartment. Having completed all connections to the terminal block (there are seven wires in total) I followed the wiring harness aft to the engine panel. Fortunately, I discovered that the harness had a 2 foot loop attached to the underside of the cockpit floor. When I unwound this and straightened it, I found that I had enough length to reach the engine panel, thereby bypassing the trailer plug near the panel and avoiding the need for another terminal block and its connections. So now the wires run from the engine compartment to a terminal block, and then directly to the aft panel. I removed the trailer plug and shortened all the wires by about 2 feet, thereby hopefully improving the connections and reducing voltage drop a bit.
Although it's too soon to know if I've solved my intermittent starting problem, the engine seemed to start even faster than before, and I now have a good understanding of all the wiring between the engine compartment and the aft panel. It also looks more organized.
So all in all, it was definitely worth the effort, and not as hard as I had anticipated.
Frank
 
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