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E38-200 1986 water tank venting

Pats

Member I
Hi ,
recently just bought a 38-200 1986, sold the house , moved the wife and kid on to it . To change lifestyle living and push off and cruise for a year in the next 1 1/2 years .

I have done lots , it’s it a good boat , but there has been somethings .

I guess my question at the moment is the the venting for the water tanks .
Forepeak tank vents in to the galley sink and stern tank vents in to the head sink .

we’ve been having water problems . And I’ve worked it out to it seems like the vent hose is water Locking /air locking the vent and the pump cant suck hard enough to fight this .
Last couple times after filling the water tank I’ve been going to the forepeak and removing and blowing the water out of the vent hose . Seems to help . IF I don’t blow out the line , the tank just stays half full and I run out of water from the stern tank , I have no midship tank , that was removed before I was an owner to make room for larger battery bank .

But today I decided to leave a bowl under the the spigot . And well let’s say it was nasty . So I took bleach and filled the hose , let it sit and then blew it out with a hose . And EEW .

I have power experience but no sail experience . And on power boats usually we have the vent for the water right by the full cap .

Has any one done this on this model of sail boat ? Is it a common thing ?

I’m going to replace the vent hose , but I was thinking would it be better to relocate the vent to the out side ?

is this bad for when you heeled over while sailing ?

Is the vent to the sink a design flaw ?

Thanks for your time .

Little long winded . Lots of questions .
 
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Frank Langer

1984 Ericson 30+, Nanaimo, BC
Hi Pats,

Sorry to hear of your water and vent troubles. Owners of E38s will reply with more helpful information, but in the meantime you may find this helpful. I have a bow and a starboard water tank (19 and 25 gals.) on our boat. There is a vent hose which exits the starboard tank near the top of that tank and the vent hose from the bow tank ties into that same vent hose and together (now one hose) go to a vent spigot in the sink in the head. The outlet for the tank water in both tanks is near the bottom of each tank and connects to the water pump. This system works very well. The vent hoses have gotten a bit discolored over the years and I have considered replacing them, but they only draw air into the tanks to replace the water that has been pumped out, so I don't really think it's a hygiene issue, more a cosmetic one.

I have noticed that when the tanks are nearing empty, there is a vacuum when I remove the inspection lid in the tank (so as not to overfill when I refill). Because of this, I have gotten into the habit of placing a small hose on the end of the vent spigot in the head and blowing into it to ensure it's all clear. I can hear bubbles when I do that, so I know it's clear then. Whether that actually helps anything I'm not sure, but it can't hurt. I have never had the water pump not pump water because of that vacuum.

I don't see any advantage to relocating your vents to the outside of the hull on your boat, as you risk water getting into the vent when you heel in a hard sail. And indoor air should work just as well as outdoor air to vent your tanks.

I wonder if you might have some additional problem like a kink in the vent hose, blockage in the water line to the pump or some other reason why your pump doesn't supply consistent water.

I hope others provide advice more specific to the E38, and that you can get this fixed. Good luck!

Frank
 

Pats

Member I
Thanks frank ,

i think my problem is growth of “I don’t want to know “ in the vent tube blocking or reducing the venting function of the hose . . And I’m wondering if having it exit at the sink could be the cause of this Bactria making its way thru the hose . Obviously this is an old problem . And maybe if the hose is clear (replaced ) will this problem go away ¿? And not be a problem with daily usage . Or from experienced owners is this a problem experienced ?

I do ask ask about the out side vents because I have seen other sail boats with the vent close to the fill port but not many .
 

Frank Langer

1984 Ericson 30+, Nanaimo, BC
Pats,

I can't imagine bacteria from the sink being sufficient in numbers and size to actually create a blockage in the vent hose, though I don't know for sure. I have not had a problem with the water tank vent hose exiting at the head sink. I wonder if the vent that you are seeing on the outside of other sailboats is the vent for the holding tank, which always vents on the outside hull for obvious reasons. I still don't see any advantage to venting outside the boat for the water tanks--that should all be clean air just replacing the volume of water withdrawn from the water tank.

I still wonder if you might have a kink in either the vent hose or more importantly, the water hose going to the pump.

Frank
 

Pats

Member I
Never thought of the water hose going to the pump being kinked . I think tomorrow I’ll be following both lines to see if any thing is kinked. the vent line is see thru and for the portion close to the tank I noticed some black growth . So that’s what’s got me thinking of it being blocked with growth/ mold / bacteria . Needless to say we haven’t been drinking the water from the tap , until I get some purification happening, and I got some stuff to put in the tanks and run thru the lines to help clean them . I could see in the tank today and it seems clean and shiny but that’s only thru the vent hole .

Here is some pictures of what I captured out of the vent tube . The first (dark brown) is bleach that I had sit in the lime for 10 min . The second is the the flush after , and there was lots of floaties .
1EE2D9E2-1C85-4517-B66A-CEB0B50C6235.jpg2A12DDFE-6E60-44BF-8657-E8F59F6F694B.jpg
I only mention Bactria from the sink , as a former chef , Food safe regulations (Canada) made us aware of contamination of things kinda like this , obviously not exactly , but how simple things by the sink could be come contaminated from splash back. And since this is literally sucking air back as you use water to do dishes , I’m pretty sure this could be a problem , maybe not so much with boat that are used often and tanks filled with water weekely and filling the tanks might flush the tube , but I’m not sure how long this boat sat unused until we move on it .

Hell maybe some owners are even unaware of the possibility’s with this . I’d be curious if any 38-200 owners have check to see if the vent tube is clean .

Is this still a common design with newer Ericsson’s ??
 

Baslin

Member III
I have the same issue with my 1983 E38.....I have my stainless steel tank out of the bow right now because it was leaking. I had a new one made and I'm actually picking it up today so I will reinstall this week. I think the issue is the vent hoses run in a more horizontal position and sometimes if the hoses have a low spot, it causes water to get trapped inside the vent hose. I am going to try and upsize the vent hose to a larger diameter and try and re-route the vent line as best as possible, not to create a low spot and see if this help....While filling my starboard tank, sometimes the water does not vent through the spicket. I have slid a rubber hose over the spicket and sucked on it and then water starts shooting out of the vent and I can hear all the pressure/air being released from the starboard tank.
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
"Venting" about the issue

Our boat was probably built and finished out by the same workers, following the same company protocols. (More about that in due course.)

Perhaps it would help to follow the problem back to the factory, and assess both the plusses and minuses of the original build....
_________________
First the Good Part:

EY had a policy of installing multiple fresh water tanks. It's not uncommon to have three tanks for fresh water.
Also a policy, in the later years, of venting each tank internally in the vessel, rather than having any opportunity for external contamination as risked by other builders with these vents on hull sides.
EY would bring all of the supply tubing (a brand called 'Qest") to a manifold where quarter-turn plastic valves let the user select any tank.

To keep each tank vented, they would put a spare ss spout on the counter wherever there was a sink, galley or head compartment, so that when filling from a deck fill, the initial overflow would discharge harmlessly into a sink until the person doing the filling realized that the tank was full and pulled the hose end out of the deck fill.
_________________
The Not so Good part:

What with several tanks located around the interior of the main Ericson line of boats, i.e. more tanks than possible vent locations, it was expedient to combine several vent hoses with T fittings. As noted by owners here over time, this led to water trapped in low points in the vent routing. Occasionally this also leads to some problems in pumping water out of a given tank. It's safe to say that some models had fewer problems than did others, all based on their internal compartment geometry.
_________________
"A more perfect solution" at this point would be separate each vent route. Then lead the tubing with no sags or "low spots".
Actually this can also be a concern for your other vents, like the one for the fuel tank or the holding tank, altho less often a reported problem. Also, all of this is not peculiar to boats from EY. All (!) boats with living accommodations will have similar difficulties with putting a lot of plumbing into a cramped and odd-shaped bunch interior structural divisions.
:rolleyes:

Sidebar: The Olson 34 model (1988 to 1990) had one "stock" water tank under a settee, with the vent spout mounted on the nearby galley counter. The optional second tank was under the cockpit seat hatch access on port side and vented to the head counter. About 23 gallons in each tank.
And..... each tank was designed to be filled from the top of the tank thru a screw-out fill/inspection plate. i.e. no deck fill fittings to leak.

With a small shutoff valve on the end of the fill hose it is actually easier to fill our water tank(s) than it would be to fiddle with a deck fitting, IMHO. Over the years I have replaced the settee tank with a 38 gallon tank, and reformatted the aft tank for better fit, still with about 23 gallons. This gives us over 60 gallons, still using the factory manifold under the gallery counter. I also re-routed both vents so that they no longer go thru the countertops, but are several feet above the tank top and would vent to the bilge area (pretty darned unlikely unless the hull does a 360).

Good luck on your water supply. We use our boat's water supple like we do at home, i.e. drinking and cooking. Having said that I do drain and refill each tank during the summer cruising season any time the boat sits for over two weeks without use. Both of the newer tanks have clean outs so toweling them dry in the off season is not too difficult.

FWIW, I have been on a LOT of deliveries over the decades where all water consumed was from oodles of little plastic bottles, with dire warnings from the owner not to trust the liquid from his tanks. (sigh...)


Further, here is a link to a good book that discusses drinking water problems as well as other potential 'smells' inside of boats. Good information to have.
https://shop.sailboatowners.com//prod.php?53615/
 
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Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
I didn't quite understand the problem, but:

On my boat, and other 38s, after filling the tanks, it is necessary to place a finger over the sink vent to regain water pressure (that is, to prime the system).

If that doesn't work, there is probably an air leak at the foot pump. Pumping the pump cures that, and system pressure is permanently regained.
 

Merrimist

Hammy, 'Merrimist' E38 in sunny Bda
E38 FW tank venting

Hi Pats, I have a 1986 E38, three FW tanks are fitted, as mentioned in Lorens reply above, on ‘Merrimist’ the forward FW tank vent and the mid tank vents are clear flex approx 5/16” are ‘T’ together then into stainless pipe fitted at galley sink. The Aft FW vent line vents with stainless pipe at the aft head sink. I have lived on and off my boat, sailing her regularly, using all three tanks by way of the FW manifold fitted under galley sink. When I bought Merrimist 3 years ago, I opened and cleaned all three tanks. I did not replace any hoses or tubing, filling or venting as all worked ok and continue to do so. I have fitted a new FW pressure pump and new FW foot pump, reason was for reliability during improvements for regular use. I have not had any issues with my tanks, filling/venting/pumping. Regularly check the FW pressure pump suction strainer is clear takes only a minute.

In answer to your questions in your original post, suggest you prove the vent hoses are free and clear as well as the FW pump supply and discharge hoses. Also ensure your pump, if it has a inlet gauze type filter on suction side is free and clear allowing free water flow.
It is not difficult to check suction strainer or gauze fitted at or on the inlet side of the pump and or to remove the vent hoses and blow through with your mouth.

If unable to blow through the existing vent hoses, blockage or kinked more than likely the cause. (I can blow through my vent hoses using my mouth on Merrimist) If you are concerned about the biological organisms living growing in the existing hose vents to prove free and clear, replacing them as you noted is a good idea.
Re-routing vent hoses led to external vent pipe hull fittings can be done, but not worth the time and effort for mind.
When you replace the vent hoses, ensure no kinks or u bends, when led upwards will work correctly.

Once a year, if you superchlorinate your tanks, and run the superchorinated water through the complete system, then flush tanks and system to remove all chlorine odours, your tanks will be nasty bug free and tank water if filled from town water will be perfectly ok for consumption - drinking/cooking/bathing etc.
If you are really concerned, you can fit after market carbon and sediment filtration system at your tap, but a waste of time and money IMHO.
Hope this helps.
Hammy in sunny Florida.
 

debonAir

Member III
Qest, hmm. Is this yet another worry? That Qest gray pipe is polybutylene, a plastic super popular in the mid 70's to mid 90's, until it started leaking all over peoples houses. It turns out that chloramines in the water cause it to become brittle and micro-crack until it fails.

I suppose using only cold water and super-chlorinating once in a while is a lot gentler than running hot chlorinated water every day through the system. And there are also still plenty of gray-piped houses from the 70's that are still leak-free.

Has anyone re-plumbed the system? Is it possible to run new hose for everything under the floor? I suppose PEX would be a good replacement if/when I had to do that, but I'd not look forward to it.

Finally, I'm missing a red plastic handle for a valve on the FW selection manifold. Anyone have a source for that? (aka parting out one, or a QEST part #)
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
a "Qest" for knowledge

When I pulled out almost all of the original Qest tubing, I changed to barb fittings and flexible hose. Our local industrial hose shop recommended a (fluorescent!) yellow high pressure hose intended for air supply to breathing masks. The liner is certified safe for air to humans and the fabric reinforcement is rated for over 100 psi, if I remember.

It clamps well with never a leak. It came only in 3/8", so might not have the flow volume for a larger system, but works fine for our boat with only the galley sink and head plumbing.

I did leave in place the one Qest tubing run from the aft water tank up to the manifold, and it has never leaked. OTOH, I did have leaks where the old tubing met the water pump, and some research revealed that any vibration could cause the failure of the plastic material.

My solution was certainly not better than other choices, but it has worked for a long time.

Edit: found the link:
http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoex...-tubing-(drinking-water-system)&referrerid=28
 
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Tom Metzger

Sustaining Partner
Finally, I'm missing a red plastic handle for a valve on the FW selection manifold. Anyone have a source for that? (aka parting out one, or a QEST part #)

Are the handles the same as on the $2 plastic valves at the hardware store?
 

debonAir

Member III
I'll have to take one to the h/w store. The valves look something like this one.

https://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?itemid=45048

But are probably original to the boat? There are three of them on the fwd starboard bulkhead under the board near the front of the sbd FW tank to select which tank(s) are sourced to the water system.

There are two more similar under the galley to select which ice box gets drained by (what is now) an electric pump, which discharges into the galley sink.

The red handle pulls off and pushes on, so I just use one of the others to operate the one I want to use, so not a real problem and you can't even see them.. but I figured since we're talking about tanks I'd ask.
 

toddster

Curator of Broken Parts
Blogs Author
You are more likely to find schedule 80 valves like that at an irrigation supply shop than a big box hardware store. At least that's were I get em.
 
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