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Thread: APS annual line and rigging sale

  1. #16
    Principal Partner Kenneth K's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bgary View Post
    OK, so... that's an elegant system that accomplishes... kinda nothing.
    Wow! Thanks for clearing that up. Hours of head scratching have been involved in my getting to this point. I did once have the notion that the back-half of the apparatus just de-leveraged what was created in the front-half but I soon dismissed the thought. Why would someone go through all the trouble and expense to accomplish nothing? And besides, more pulleys must mean more (not less) leverage, right?

    Those stainless Garhauer shuttle blocks are real clunkers--I could regularly hear them banging around inside the boom. And, I probably had well over 100ft of line and wire running inside the boom--just waiting to foul at the wrong moment, of course.

    In terms of the "why," though, I did find this diagram on single line reefing:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Almost the exact setup I started with. Though the shuttle block brings the leverage back to 1:1, it probably acts to equalize the load on the forward (downhaul) and aft (outhaul) lines. So, apparently, one of my POs was a single-line reefing guy. I don't understand how though, because with a Dutchman, you always have flaked sail bundles on BOTH sides of the boom when lowering or reefing. In practice, it looks more like this:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    So, SLR is NOT something I'm going to try to resurrect. I may cut one of the shuttle blocks in half and run the first reef line as 2:1 inside the boom. As you pointed out, the second reef line is too long for an internal pulley setup and needs to run straight through.

    Thanks for clarifying.....especially before I go out to buy new line and put this thing back together. The original reason for all the pictures and drawings was so I could put things back together exactly as they were. Now I don't have to.

    How much should I make the check out for?
    Last edited by Kenneth K; 01-16-2019 at 06:54 PM.
    Ken
    '85 E32-3 "Mariah" #641
    Universal M-25

    "Saltwater is the cure; sweat, tears, or the sea......"

  2. #17
    Makes Up For It With Enthusiasm Geoff W.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenneth K View Post
    How much should I make the check out for?
    I think market rate on these forums runs about $0.02.
    s/v "Delightful"
    1987 E32-3
    Hull #712

  3. #18
    Advanced Beginner bgary's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenneth K View Post
    How much should I make the check out for?
    Any amount you want ($.02 sounds about right!).... but you have to deliver it in person at the Rendezvous this year.

    "Makana" (ex-Thelonious)
    1985 Ericson 32-III #604
    Makana blog: here

  4. #19
    Principal Partner Kenneth K's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bgary View Post
    Any amount you want ($.02 sounds about right!).... but you have to deliver it in person at the Rendezvous this year.


    Now you're talkin........
    Ken
    '85 E32-3 "Mariah" #641
    Universal M-25

    "Saltwater is the cure; sweat, tears, or the sea......"

  5. #20
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    I enjoyed this little thread, even if it's stretching my brain a bit at this stage (which is good, as I've haven't done much of that since retiring...)

    I look forward to solving some of these puzzles on the E29 we're about to purchase if all goes well. One question I have about rigging is in regards to wire size. I suspect the standing rigging and lifelines are original on this '76 E29, and the manual states 7/32" 1/19 was likely used. However, a lot of places seem to skip this size and list only 3/16" and 1/4". I found this listing for 1/4" 316 wire for $1.02 CAD / ft, which seems reasonable. I'd be replacing any fittings as needed, of course. Any reason not to go with 1/4" if the cost is similar? Can anyone recommend good places to shop for this stuff in Canada?

    https://wescovan.com/wire-rope/1x19-...ess-316-strand

    Thanks

  6. #21
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    This is a follow on to earlier discussion on page 1
    (1983 Ericson 30+ boom painting and line replacement)

    It is now mid-March and the weather this weekend brought two days of above 50 and no rain.

    I used this window to remove the hardware and prime the boom that I removed in December.

    When the next weather window comes, I will apply a coat of white paint.

    Now to point of this note:
    1. What should I use to prevent bi-metal corrosion when re-installing hardware?
    2. Is there a way to remove cleats that are bi-metal corroded to a point where they can not be removed?


    For those looking for comparable cost and sizes for an Ericson 30+, see below:

    LINES:
    Boom Length: 13 Feet
    Starboard Reef line: 26 + 13
    Port Reef Line: 16 + 13
    out haul (rope to wire): 10+ 13 )
    topping lift (rope to wire): 5+ 13


    Item Number Description Qty Ord. Unit Price Disc Extended Price
    NESS38 GREEN New England Ropes Sta-Set: 10mm (3/8") 3/8 in 40.00 $ 0.9500 20 $ 30.40
    NESS38 RED New England Ropes Sta-Set: 10mm (3/8") 3/8 in 30.00 $ 0.9500 20 $ 22.80
    NESS516 WHITE/BLUE New England Ropes Sta-Set: 8mm (5/16") 5/16 in 25.00 $ 0.7600 20 $ 15.20
    NESS516 BLACK New England Ropes Sta-Set: 8mm (5/16") 5/16 in 15.00 $ 0.7600 20 $ 9.12

    PAINT
    AirCraft Spruce


    Zinc, Phosphate - Boom primer - $17.5
    PTI white engine enamel - $18.50
    Shipping - $12.75



    MJS

  7. #22
    Moderator Christian Williams's Avatar
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    1. What should I use to prevent bi-metal corrosion when re-installing hardware?
    2. Is there a way to remove cleats that are bi-metal corroded to a point where they can not be removed?

    1. Tef-gel or Lanocote are popular. I recall Maine Sail liking Tef-gel, so that's what I use.
    2. If aluminum and stainless are actually corrosion welded, not much you can do. Otherwise, the usual tricks of PB Blaster, heat, impact driver, patience, and so on.
    Last edited by Christian Williams; 03-11-2019 at 05:37 PM.
    Thelonious II, E381 hull 513 (1984) Universal 5432
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  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian Williams View Post
    1. What should I use to prevent bi-metal corrosion when re-installing hardware?
    2. Is there a way to remove cleats that are bi-metal corroded to a point where they can not be removed?

    1. Tef-gel or Lanocote are popular. I recall Maine Sail liking Tef-gel, so that's what I use.
    2. If aluminum and stainless are actually welded, not much you can do. Otherwise, the usual tricks of PB Blaster, heat, patience, and so on.
    Thank you Christian,

    Now if the spray paint job works well, this 35 year old lady will be another step closer to her prime.

    MJS

  9. #24
    Principal Partner Kenneth K's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian Williams View Post
    2. If aluminum and stainless are actually corrosion welded, not much you can do. Otherwise, the usual tricks of PB Blaster, heat, impact driver, patience, and so on.
    The boom and the cleats are both aluminum, so I'm guessing you're talking about the SS screws being welded to the threads in the boom. My cleats had #12 mounting screws (I believe they were slotted, not Phillips). The slotted screwheads will strip pretty easily if they're really stuck in the aluminum. If so, you could (a) use a center-punch in the center of the screw head, then start with a small drill bit, stepping up to larger drill bits till you've removed the screw head. Or, (b) saw through the bases of the cleats (cutting off the screw-heads with them).

    Either way, you'll be left with screw "studs" sticking out of the boom. But the studs will be a lot easier to go after with PB Blaster, heat torch, vice grips, etc, once the cleats are out of the way. New cleats are about $30 each though.

    I was hoping to start repainting my boom this week, too. I got the same primer from Aircraft Spruce.
    Last edited by Kenneth K; 03-11-2019 at 10:15 PM.
    Ken
    '85 E32-3 "Mariah" #641
    Universal M-25

    "Saltwater is the cure; sweat, tears, or the sea......"

  10. #25
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    Putting finishing touches to Discovery's boom project, with line replacement. Reefing lines were fine, lengths were good but the green/red colors were switched, leaving poor Discovery with a 2nd reef line color of Green on the Port, and 1st reef line color of Red on the Starboard.

    Then I discovered out haul and topping lift lines were too short, and while discovering this, the topping lift line disappeared into the boom like a little mouse.

    Got to figure out how to get the little sucker outta there and back to where it belongs.

    MJS

  11. #26
    Principal Partner Kenneth K's Avatar
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    Well MJS, you're still ahead of me. My boom is still hanging from straps in the garage, stripped of all lines and sheaves. I was going to repaint it but its getting so late in the season I may just put it back together as is.

    I was actually thinking of re-rigging with the green first- reef lines to port and the red second-reef to starboard. Meaning green=easy first reef, red=this means business.
    Ken
    '85 E32-3 "Mariah" #641
    Universal M-25

    "Saltwater is the cure; sweat, tears, or the sea......"

  12. #27
    Advanced Beginner bgary's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenneth K View Post
    I was actually thinking of re-rigging with the green ... to port and the red ... to starboard.
    Blasphemy!!!!!



    For mjsouleman's problem, though, you're right, there's nothing that says 1st-reef has to be to starboard... so he could easily use the green line for 2nd reef and run it on the starboard side, use the shorter red line for 1st reef and run it to port...

    $.02
    Bruce
    "Makana" (ex-Thelonious)
    1985 Ericson 32-III #604
    Makana blog: here

  13. #28
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    Love it. Now if you can help me get that darn topping lift line hiding in the boom, I would be eternally grateful.

    MJS

  14. #29
    Principal Partner Kenneth K's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bgary View Post
    Blasphemy!!!!!
    I realize swapping sides with red and green is blasphemous, but ALL my port lines are currently red/white. If I swap sides, I'll at least know the "wrong" colored lines are the reef lines.

    That, or invest in a bunch of new rope......
    Ken
    '85 E32-3 "Mariah" #641
    Universal M-25

    "Saltwater is the cure; sweat, tears, or the sea......"

  15. #30
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    [QUOTE=mjsouleman;120469]This is a follow on to earlier discussion on page 1
    (1983 Ericson 30+ boom painting and line replacement)

    It is now mid-March and the weather this weekend brought two days of above 50 and no rain.

    I used this window to remove the hardware and prime the boom that I removed in December.

    When the next weather window comes, I will apply a coat of white paint.

    Now to point of this note:
    1. What should I use to prevent bi-metal corrosion when re-installing hardware?
    2. Is there a way to remove cleats that are bi-metal corroded to a point where they can not be removed?


    For those looking for comparable cost and sizes for an Ericson 30+, see below:

    LINES:
    Boom Length: 13 Feet
    Starboard Reef line: 26 + 13
    Port Reef Line: 16 + 13
    out haul (rope to wire): 10+ 13 )
    topping lift (rope to wire): 5+ 13


    Item Number Description Qty Ord. Unit Price Disc Extended Price
    NESS38 GREEN New England Ropes Sta-Set: 10mm (3/8") 3/8 in 40.00 $ 0.9500 20 $ 30.40
    NESS38 RED New England Ropes Sta-Set: 10mm (3/8") 3/8 in 30.00 $ 0.9500 20 $ 22.80
    NESS516 WHITE/BLUE New England Ropes Sta-Set: 8mm (5/16") 5/16 in 25.00 $ 0.7600 20 $ 15.20
    NESS516 BLACK New England Ropes Sta-Set: 8mm (5/16") 5/16 in 15.00 $ 0.7600 20 $ 9.12

    PAINT
    AirCraft Spruce


    Zinc, Phosphate - Boom primer - $17.5
    PTI white engine enamel - $18.50
    Shipping - $12.75



    FINAL Edit This threat:
    With this project in the rear view mirror, here are a lesson or two learned

    I Take the end caps off first
    I didn't. Lesson: The SS screws bi-metal bonded and needed persuasion to come out. That persuasion was to place a wooden block under the boom end, and with a hefty screw driver and impact hammer, smack the screw driver while turning. This took at least 6-12 good whacks to loosen to a point where the screws backed out.

    2. When a SS screw head is sheared off.... get help to drill the thing out and then drop a weld in.

    II When putting the caps back on, do not use SS screws, use SS rivets

    Summary: Lessons learned and ego intact.

    MJS

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