[E32-3] Bilge smell - burnt popcorn?

Hi all,

While working on my boat today I noticed the bilge was giving off an odor that smelled a lot like...burnt. The water in the bilge is pretty black but has been since I got it - a lot of it is worked-off shmutz and grime that I haven't fully pumped and flushed out yet. I dipped my fingers in but they didn't feel oily. The systems I had going were: pressure water, refrigeration, cabin lights, and stereo. Shore power was in w/ battery charger and outlets on. Not sure why a bilge pump would be burning out - the water level hasn't risen from what I've seen and they shouldn't be turning on.

Bilge pics (stern to bow)

Geoff, that doesn't sound good, so I would do my utmost to find the cause before leaving the boat.I am assuming that this is a new smell, not something that was there last time you were on the boat.

I am not an electrician, so others will have better advice, but for now I would start by turning off all circuits and unplugging shore power so nothing is running. This will hopefully keep it from getting worse and potentially causing a fire or other crisis.
Next I would check all fuses, starting with the bilge pump and any other wires going thru the bilge, and then proceeding to check all other fuses where you can find them. A blown fuse will identify the faulty circuit. If the fuses are all good, I would look for any sign of burnt, overheated or warm to the touch wire.

Often a new problem is linked to the last area you worked on, so I would check that wiring carefully.

If you have an ammeter on the boat, I would then switch on each circuit, one at a time, to see if it's drawing the expected amps and is working properly, but only one circuit at a time--ie. lights, refrigerator, water pressure pump, etc. I would also be sure that my fire extinguisher is functional and close by, just in case.

If nothing shows up, my next step would be to check all electrical connections to ensure they are clean and tight, watching for any sign of melted or blackened wire.

Good luck, and keep us posted. Hopefully others will chime in soon.

Frank

I suggest cleaning the bilge. That dark color may be teak sawdust from manufacture, but it could be something else, and let's make sure it's not. Also, a dirty bilge will clog your bilge pumps and in-line bilge hose strainer, which may well be clogged already if nobody's looked lately.

Hard to troubleshoot a smell when the bilge is foul (many smells emanate from there). But you're on the right track getting at it.

Frank's urgency and Christian's common sense sent me back to the boat tonight, where I pumped out a big orange bucket's worth of the vilest liquid I've ever encountered (and I had a colostomy in 6th grade.). I'm going to have nightmares tonight. I don't think it's an electrical issue right now.

Ran to West Marine before it closed to get a big blue hand pump but still have an inch or so of water left in there. I think I'm gonna have to bring some towels I don't mind sacrificing to get at the last bit. This is definitely the source of the boat odor in the salon.

I'm glad to hear that this may not be an electrical problem, but I'm not sure I understand the source of that burnt popcorn smell you mentioned. But either way, a clean bilge is a good thing, and hopefully once you get it clean it can remain clean.
It may be hard to get it clean if you have the TAFG (triaxial force grid, I think) as it has pockets that can trap bilge stuff. There is a bilge cleaner you can buy to add to the bilge, then go for a sail to get it sloshing around, and then drain /clean it. Might take a few tries till you get it all out.
Might be important to identify the source of the gunk in there - - oil leaks, rear main seal leak, spilled coolant, etc. so it doesn't happen again.
Boats are hard work, but it's so worth it!
Frank

Two possible sources of a "burnt" type odor that I can suggest would be (1) engine oil blow-by and gases, and (2) caramelized engine coolant. To help find either of these I would suggest after cleaning the bilge that you next clean the engine itself. I used to get a lot of blow-by until I routed the crankcase breather tube back to the air intake, and to remove the only mess I used to spray the surface of the engine block with concentrated Simple Green many times and let it drain down into the engine pan.

Water heater

Geoff: I too own a 32-3 (1987) and all the suggestions made so far are good one's including cleaning up the bilge before trying to track down the nasty "popcorn" smell. But one other thing you might want to check, along with everything else (if you have this situation) is your water heater. A number of year ago my water heater, which uses the engine and shore power, cracked and was slowly leaking down onto the 120 volt connections on the heater itself. This went unnoticed by me (dumb) and one day the corrosion heated up and cause and electrical fire. Luckily I was near by on the dock when I saw smoke coming out of the boat. No real damage was done but it scared the crap out of me. I know that this maybe a long shot but since you're checking up on things looking the water heater over might be a good thing to add to your list.

Back out working on this today. Diapered out as much water as I could and did a few rounds with Super Green and a brush. The smell culprit is this black crusty sludge that's accumated, particularly in the second bilge compartment from.the stern. This would be the compartment that'd probably call the drips from the shaft home (it's not dripless) so maybe that's indicative of an issue there. The smell seems more mechanical + biological than electrical.







For some before/after...there's clearly a lot more elbow greasing to do that I'll do today, but I need better tools...currently going at it with some detailing brushes and Super Green. Is there something more...serious I could use to persuade the gunk to lift? The parts that aren't coming off with a brush are pretty crusted on.

This last pic is the nature of the gunk when wiped via diaper. It becomes a fairly fine particulate.

**EDIT** Nevermind, the burnt smell is definitely coming from the third bilge compartment toward the bow. This compartment also looks to be taking in water from somewhere...it's not very long after I dry it out that it has a thin layer of water in it again. Keelbolt or bilge pump issue?

In other news, opened the engine compartment to have a look-see and there's all this standing water in the front...



Now this would make sense to me to be coming from the shaft, but shouldn't it be draining somewhere? I felt around and couldn't find an outlet of any sort.

Geoff, most of the Ericson engine pans don't have an outlet hole. The rationale is so any spilled oil or other fluid doesn't escape into the bilge and get discharged overboard. Makes cleanup a bit easier too.
Frank

It is likely you have water, possibly ancient, trapped in the TAFG structure.

You dry out the bilge, the next day it has cruddy water in it again. Appears to be a hull leak or weeping keel bolts. And good thing it's not.

Some or all boats have TAGF drains (Photo below).

If not, feel free to drill a drain hole in the vertical side of the TAGF structure near the hull bottom. You can always seal it after the TAFG drains.

Note: Water trapped in the TAFG usually contains construction debris, sawdust, and so on.

Anyhow, something to consider.



Also, re post #11, water in the engine compartment: salt or fresh? (taste it)

When I bought my boat she was on the hard. I cleaned and dried the bilge compartments my first weekend working on her and was very proud of that work. I came back the next weekend to find 2” of water in the bilge (it was a rainy week).
The point is to remember that with your keel stepped mast you may always have some water in the bilge that does not come from below.

Just took her out to reward myself for jamming a bunch of diapers in a stinky bilge. Wind is up today so had plenty of heeling back and forth to slosh things around. Came back and the bilge has about half an inch of dark water in the middle two bilge compartments (foremost compartment is less dark than the middle two.

PO emailed me to say he never had this sort of dark water accumulating in the bilge, so unfortunately this may be a new issue. Shining my phone flashlight in, it almost looks amber-ish in one compartment, doesn't smell like head. Doesn't smell like much right now, actually. Kind of alarming that half an inch of water just showed up like that, though.

Christian - it's currently moored in freshwater so it's all gonna taste fresh, unfortunately.

Sati said:

...currently going at it with some detailing brushes and Super Green. Is there something more...serious I could use to persuade the gunk to lift? The parts that aren't coming off with a brush are pretty crusted on.

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The next level would be to try acid or base. For the base, try using TSP (trisodium phosphate), which works well on organics. For the acid, you could try just toilet bowl cleaner, which works well on mineral build up. But be sure to do a good job of cleaning away any residue and keep it away from metal.

That sure sounds like trapped TAGF water. And the amber color--well, both my Ericsons were full of teak sawdust in the nether regions.

It may be compulsive, but what I did was fill the bilge with hose water and a couple quarts of Home Depot citrus cleaner. Then I opened up the TAGF drains and let it pour in and out. Then turned on the bilge pumps.

If you want to fill a harbor with soap suds, this method works.

Anyhow, a lot of stuff came from factory manufacturing came out. It wasn't hurting anything in there, but it's hard to get a guaranteed clean bilge without multiple such flushes.

The TAGF does trap fluids. I had a small diesel spill into the bilges (overflow from leaking fuel gauge sender port after filling tank to the brim) and spent all afternoon flooding and vacuuming out compartments to get rid of it. A shop vac works best for that. These are eccentricities of the "Tri-Axial Force Grid" design of the '80s boats.

By the way, when our boats were built the bilge compartment limber holes were connected with short sections of PVC pipe. That was intended to isolate the grid from the bilges, and keep normal rain water water and spillage out of the hidden recesses. But over time the PVC connections usually degrade, and allow the bilge water to get where it oughtn't be, and where it fails to drain to the pumps--until you heel over.

Or of course--could be something else entirely.

Christian Williams said:

That sure sounds like trapped TAGF water.

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It does.

When my boat went on a truck, the bilge was dry. When it came off the truck, there was enough water in the bilge to cover the keel bolts... and there's no way that water came into the boat. Mast partners were sealed. All hatches and ports were sealed. Etc. The water *had* to have been trapped somewhere under the TAFG somewhere, and sloshed out into the main bilge from all the road motion.

The boat sat for the next several months without a rig while I re-did things. bilge stayed pretty much dry the whole time. When the rig went in, I went for a sail... bilge was dry when I left, had stinky black water in the bilge when I returned. Smelled like burnt rubber. The only thing that happened between leaving and returning was that the boat heeled from one side to the other and bounced around in a bit of chop.

Being a Nervous New Boat Owner, I went around the boat from end to end to try to figure out where I was "leaking". Filled the anchor locker with water to make sure it drained (and not into the bilge. Checked the seacocks and hoses to make sure there were no suspicious water-trails. Checked the shaft gland, the rudder gland, etc.

Nothing.

I could only conclude that the water *had* to have come from somewhere under the grid. There's not really another reasonable explanation. When the boat sits, level, and there's no rain, I get no water in the bilge. If I go motoring, no water. But if I sail... that first few times, after it had been sitting for a while, UGH.

Since then I've done as Christian suggests - filled the bilge with a bilge-cleaner solution, then pumped it out. Repeat a few times and it helps.

I don't think there's really a way to "solve" the problem. If you look at the picture below, see all those flat areas between the bilge pockets? Those are all hollow, and God only knows what's been growing down there for the last 30+ years.... (shudder)

(PS, it continues to amaze me how much water comes down the mast when it does rain. That's a story for another day.)

Gather your friends, pour a good glass of wine, and settle back to watch and enjoy the drama of actual rainwater coming down an Ericson mast.

https://vimeo.com/200417317

That mast video is alarming. Better seen first online so if I see it in real life, I don't immediately panic.

Thanks everyone for the advice -- Bruce's post makes me feel a lot better. Burnt rubber is very close to how the water smelled, and what the 2nd/3rd bilge compartments smell like. These two must have an entry to the TAFG in them...maybe the limberhole there, per Christian? I looked around and couldn't find anything resembling a TAFG drain, but my compartments are a lot more claustrophobic than Christian's.