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37 mk2 keel issues: help and adise please

cowtownflyer

New Member
I am looking at purchasing a '73 mk2 37'. The boat suffered a split in the shell of the keel as pictured. Boat stands sunk into the ground and placed additional stress on keel which resulted in the cracking of fiberglass.

I read the following about this keel from an article posted by the practical sailer: https://www.practical-sailor.com/reviews/boatreview/Ericson_35-1171-1.html

"The ballast is a lead casting dropped into the molded fiberglass keel. Examine the leading edge and bottom of the keel carefully for signs of hard grounding which may have damaged the keel shell."

The above statement seems to imply that the lead ballast is NOT bolted to the hull ? Is this possible ? Or is the ballasted bolted to the hull and then fiberglass applied afterward ?

Back to the split as pictured. I have experience with fiberglass application for repair. Can I simply repair this crack and be good to go ? Or are there other issues I am not aware of as per above concerning how the ballast is actually fixed to the hull.

Thanks in advance for any input and suggestions.
mk2 keel 1.jpg

mk2 keel 2.jpg
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
In any boat with "internal ballast" the lead (if an Ericson, and cheaper iron in the case of cheaper boats) is lowered into the keel-shaped part of the hull. There is nothing to bolt it to, as would be required if that lead shape were external and had to be attached to a hull.

Note that the shape of the hull with its 'tumble home' midsection required that either they mold it out with a Take-Apart mold to extract the whole hull. That was not very common for large boats, AFAIK.
So EY, like other builders, molded out the the hull in two half pieces and then glassed them together down the center with ample roving. This put a premium on joining the halves before the hull parts were too far cured and so they would have good bonding to the joining roving.

While there are a few Ericsons (and probably other makes from the era with the same potential weakness) that leaked later during heavy weather, it has worked very well.

That E-37 was ballasted with lead, a great advantage over cheaper makes. That lead is inside the lower part of the hull.

As long as you grind back any parts you want to strengthen at least a 12 to 1 taper when you lay up the new glass, and then use epoxy with its better adhesion, you should be as good as new.

This advice, while well intended, is still limited by being "found on the internet" so do consult some experienced builders/restorers. :rolleyes:


Not part of yourinquiry, but IMHO the E-37 was one of the prettiest Ericsons of the era. Just an all-around gorgeous classic design!

:egrin:
 

cowtownflyer

New Member
In any boat with "internal ballast" the lead (if an Ericson, and cheaper iron in the case of cheaper boats) is lowered into the keel-shaped part of the hull. There is nothing to bolt it to, as would be required if that lead shape were external and had to be attached to a hull.

Note that the shape of the hull with its 'tumble home' midsection required that either they mold it out with a Take-Apart mold to extract the whole hull. That was not very common for large boats, AFAIK.
So EY, like other builders, molded out the the hull in two half pieces and then glassed them together down the center with ample roving. This put a premium on joining the halves before the hull parts were too far cured and so they would have good bonding to the joining roving.

While there are a few Ericsons (and probably other makes from the era with the same potential weakness) that leaked later during heavy weather, it has worked very well.

That E-37 was ballasted with lead, a great advantage over cheaper makes. That lead is inside the lower part of the hull.

As long as you grind back any parts you want to strengthen at least a 12 to 1 taper when you lay up the new glass, and then use epoxy with its better adhesion, you should be as good as new.

This advice, while well intended, is still limited by being "found on the internet" so do consult some experienced builders/restorers. :rolleyes:


Not part of yourinquiry, but IMHO the E-37 was one of the prettiest Ericsons of the era. Just an all-around gorgeous classic design!

:egrin:

Hey Loren, not sure if I'm using this post system correctly or not. Wanted to reply without quote. My name is Jim and I thank you for responding.

Yes, I been rolling around at night thinks about this. I knew the built the boat hull in two halves and then seamed together. But I was still unclear if there was some sort of bolting system put in place after they placed the ballast. So you are confirming not.

The current owner of the boat noticed water running from the bilge down through the keel and out the crack at the base. He has filled the bilge when replacing the rebuilt engine and claims leakage has been eliminated. So sounds like a basic fiberglass repair on keel enclosure.

I have had good success with West Systems Epoxies available at West Marine. I don't think the repair will be much of an issue. So in your opinion, if I can repair the damage effectively, then I should be good to go without much concern ?

When I was a young man, everybody wanted an Ericson. Now that I'm older and with few extra $$$ around, this seems like a good opportunity ?

Thank you Sir.
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Hey Loren, not sure if I'm using this post system correctly or not. Wanted to reply without quote. My name is Jim and I thank you for responding.

Yes, I been rolling around at night thinks about this. I knew the built the boat hull in two halves and then seamed together. But I was still unclear if there was some sort of bolting system put in place after they placed the ballast. So you are confirming not.

The current owner of the boat noticed water running from the bilge down through the keel and out the crack at the base. He has filled the bilge when replacing the rebuilt engine and claims leakage has been eliminated. So sounds like a basic fiberglass repair on keel enclosure.

I have had good success with West Systems Epoxies available at West Marine. I don't think the repair will be much of an issue. So in your opinion, if I can repair the damage effectively, then I should be good to go without much concern ?

When I was a young man, everybody wanted an Ericson. Now that I'm older and with few extra $$$ around, this seems like a good opportunity ?

Thank you Sir.

Perhaps not quite everyone else wanted an Ericson when we were starting out in the mid-70's, but I recall that the EY boats were considered very high end (even before that phrase passed into the language...)

Back when the smallest Ericson was a foxy-looking 23 footer, we could afford a new Ranger 20, which we sailed a lot for 5 years.
'Good Old Days' indeed! :)

While there are other fine epoxy brands, I have had good luck for decades with West Systems products. I would say that you could have a strong fix, as long was you follow the great advice in the booklets and videos from West Systems.

Regards,
Loren
 

cowtownflyer

New Member
Perhaps not quite everyone else wanted an Ericson when we were starting out in the mid-70's, but I recall that the EY boats were considered very high end (even before that phrase passed into the language...)

Back when the smallest Ericson was a foxy-looking 23 footer, we could afford a new Ranger 20, which we sailed a lot for 5 years.
'Good Old Days' indeed! :)

While there are other fine epoxy brands, I have had good luck for decades with West Systems products. I would say that you could have a strong fix, as long was you follow the great advice in the booklets and videos from West Systems.

Regards,
Loren

I only have experience - and lots of it - lake sailing/racing a 24' - Swiftsure 24 build in Canada. I have not been active for many, many years now. Hoping what knowledge I did have is easily transferable to the bigger boat - and that it's like riding a bicycle !!!

I think you are right about the repair. Not a big issue if performed correctly. Pretty sure I sure I should pull the trigger on this thing. "Live the dream" before it's too late to do so - not getting any younger ...
 

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
But get a survey. It's a big boat and an old boat. Restoration is expensive unless others have already pitched in.
 

gadangit

Member III
The current owner of the boat noticed water running from the bilge down through the keel and out the crack at the base. He has filled the bilge when replacing the rebuilt engine and claims leakage has been eliminated. So sounds like a basic fiberglass repair on keel enclosure.

If the boat had water running from the bilge and out the crack in the keel then you have a pretty serious crack in the hull at the bottom of the keel. The roving has completely parted and the structural seam (which was a secondary bond to begin with) is no longer structural. You have to ask yourself why. I'm assuming the E39 and E37 is of similar design and construction where there is a very deep bilge aft of the lead which is a serious PITA to access and maintain. Once you fill that bilge volume in you no longer have access to the hull.

It seems like the order of repairs is out of sequence. Fix the keel and put in the water. If 6' of water pressure no longer forces water into the bilge then you can start the pondering of removing access to the most vulnerable part of the hull (the bottom leading edge.)

Also, perhaps the picture is distorted, but the bottom of the keel profile does not look symmetrical. I am not sure what exactly the lead looks like in there, but I found large "loose" blocks of lead up on the top of the keel in our boat. I would imagine that the blocks start small and get bigger as they go up. It looks like you have some shifting or something going on at the bottom of the pile of 8000lbs of lead.

A survey is a must and possibly a naval architect to help sort out specifically how to fix this.

Chris
 
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