E30+ Whisker Pole Track Installation

Anyone know what the best method to install a sliding track on the mast for a whisker pole attachment is?
Simply buy track, drill/tap holes for screws and install?
Correct size of track and where to buy?

I am thankful for any insight. I could be over thinking this one.

Tom Clark

Easy enough. The track will go on the front of the mast, which is relatively flat, and is secured by machine screws in tapped holes.

You can select track size and length, and the pole and fittings and storage, in consult with Harken or its competitors. The track selected will stipulate screw size.

Just buy the correct tap kit--a bit and the tool--at a hardware store.

Drill, tap the holes and install the track. Use Tef-gel between stainless and alum.

If you're not racing, a simple fairly short track with eye slide and pin-end pole is cheapest and most simple.

Track

Christian Williams said:

Easy enough. The track will go on the front of the mast, which is relatively flat, and is secured by machine screws in tapped holes.

You can select track size and length, and the pole and fittings and storage, in consult with Harken or its competitors. The track selected will stipulate screw size.

Just buy the correct tap kit--a bit and the tool--at a hardware store.

Drill, tap the holes and install the track. Use Tef-gel between stainless and alum.

If you're not racing, a simple fairly short track with eye slide and pin-end pole is cheapest and most simple.

Click to expand...

Some brand comes with fasteners. threaded nail type, drill one hole, at end drive the first one in, then the other end. That way all the holes line up. I think that it was Shaffer, but, time and memory go faster with each passing year.

Christian Williams said:

If you're not racing, a simple fairly short track with eye slide and pin-end pole is cheapest and most simple.

Click to expand...

A similar question so I hope it's okay to piggyback on tclark's post:

I want to install a whisker pole track on my E32-3. What recommendations for track length and height above deck to begin track (cruising use only). I had considered 10+ ft of track for vertical/mast mounted pole storage, but it seems like too much hardware. I'll probably opt for stanchion chocks to store the pole instead.

Thanks.

The track only needs to be long enough to keep the pole horizontal.

You could pole out the full genoa and note where the connection is on the mast.

Then furl genoa small and note where the connection is .

The difference depends on the height of the clew on the genny.

If the difference isn't much, many boats get along with no track at all, just a fixed ring.

Pole Opinions

A stout ss ring screwed to the mast will indeed work, but we tried and later replaced that with track on our first 20 foot sailboat. Problem was that the optimal point for the working jib and the genny were rather different. Different wind pressures would change it, too.

I would advise checking around with other sister ships and then putting up a full-length track, whatever that length might be. Note that storing a pole vertically brings both plusses and minuses. Also that having the track height for a standard spinnaker pole is less important than it once was due to the perceived (and often overly-valued) usefulness of the A-sail.

As for pole storage, we changed to the stanchion-mount chocks this year and I wish this had been done a lot sooner. The former decades-in-use aluminum deck chocks combined with a pole made for narrowed-up footing and a general tripping hazard.

An observation if I may -- entering a sailboat race has nothing to do with optimizing your sail shape. Sort of like deciding whether to drive your car in first gear or fourth gear... it's a choice that will determine how soon you get to the market.
The comment about mast bending and main sail shape is good, too. Depending on the designed-in shaping of that sail it may or may not be worth doing, and further, it may take more effort to bend it than you want to apply on a given day. On ours the mast does not like to bend... but at about 2000# on the gauge it will... some. Mostly this tensions the forestay, a really good thing for going to weather.

(Sailing is a great sport because you can learn the basics in a day and then spend a lifetime enjoying and refining.)

To Loren's point, the tradition of storing poles on the foredeck is bonkers. It's a trip hazard and waste of space.

See what you think of hanging poles on the stanchions on the outboard side. It greatly opens up the side decks.

If you don't like it, just turn the hangers around.

My setup never has fouled, even though you'd think the open ends of the poles would likely catch sheets.

Christian Williams said:

To Loren's point, the tradition of storing poles on the foredeck is bonkers. It's a trip hazard and waste of space.

See what you think of hanging poles on the stanchions on the outboard side. It greatly opens up the side decks.

If you don't like it, just turn the hangers around.

My setup never has fouled, even though you'd think the open ends of the poles would likely catch sheets.

View attachment 24244

Click to expand...

Mine's a hybrid of Christian's - so that forward end of the pole doesn't stick out too much - my aft stanchion chock is outboard like his but my forward one is on the inside of the stanchion. Try both and see what you like.

No mater how you store it there will be pluses and minuses. After pondering it for quite awhile I went with the on-mast installation. The main negatives are cost for extra hardware, more weight aloft and more windage, but IMHO it is worth it. Plus the lack of clutter on deck makes admiral happy. Cannot beat that.

Thanks for all the great input. Forespar's website has several videos covering whisker/spinnaker poles. Of course they (the guys that sell the $150-$400-a-pop hardware) tout vertical pole storage. The more I thought about it, the less sense it made, particularly with a 17 lb whisker pole.

Their video also recommends the use of a pole with an A-sail under certain circumstances.

So, if one wanted the flexibility to pole out a genny, an A-sail, or a spinnaker at various times, would you need two poles. Can a light-air symmetric spinnaker be flown with an adjustable whisker pole?

In light air a spinnaker will work with an adjustable pole. But it has to be pretty light air.

The compression force on a spinnaker pole pretty gets quickly too much for any adjustable pole. Failure is explosive.

Okay, that's what I figured. Wouldn't want to blow out a new whi$$ker pole. So what's the proper size for a fixed spinnaker pole for an E32-3? Is it 100% J = 13.75?

Ken,

The "typical" symmetric spinnaker pole is based on racing rules and is equal to J. You get a rating penalty for longer (not shorter).
There is nothing to keep you from going longer or shorter if you are not racing.

I have both types of spinnakers and also use my spin pole to pole out genoas.

If you are considering a symmetric spin in the future, I would be on the look out for a used spin pole of about the correct length, longer than J is better than shorter. I would also get a track strong enough and long enough to use with a spin pole. This gives you the option to upgrade. Downside - the spin pole is longer (doesn't collapse), heavier and more expensive. The track and fittings are going to be more expensive. You'll need a pole topping lift for the heavier spin pole. It is nice for pole control but you may not need one for the whisker pole.

If you are thinking of adding an asymmetric spin later and just using a poled out genoa then the above option is overkill.

From my experience with all three downwind options, I decide which sail I'm going to use based on how long I'll be sailing downwind and how windy it is. This is based on the hassle factor of setting up the sail and the need for gybing. Short leg or windy = poled out 150 genoa that I already have set. Moderate leg or need to gybe or short crew = A-sail. Two can outside gybe the A-sail. Long leg and light wind with minimum gybes = symmetric spin. The symmetric is BIG and gybing requires a couple of crew and a good driver in light air and more skill and crew in moderate wind.

Mark

Kenneth K said:

Okay, that's what I figured. Wouldn't want to blow out a new whi$$ker pole. So what's the proper size for a fixed spinnaker pole for an E32-3? Is it 100% J = 13.75?

Click to expand...

I would go with the jaw-to-jaw measurement, which is probably what you referenced. That actual length of finished pole, from the outside of each end casting will be a few inches more than that. Modern poles will often have "Amsteel" line for the bridles, rather than vinyl covered wire like my vintage pole.
Does hour particular boat have the stock "spinnaker package" with the topping lift block on the mast to lead the lift inside and down, and an exit plate for it in the lower part? Are there blocks on the foredeck for the foreguy? ...and provision on the house side or top to cleat it?

EY did a great job back in the day equipping these boats with good quality parts for the spinnaker running rigging, so if yours does not have these parts, another site member can probably provide photos and narrative description.

(While even us grumpy old timers will admit that an A-Sail has advantages for reaching, there is little better than a tri-radial spinnaker for running downwind.)

Here we are, years ago, in light air, about an hour before sunset... coasting along.
http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/album.php?albumid=26&attachmentid=8322

BTW, Mark has covered the options really well. Excellent writeup.

When choosing the pole length, consideration should be given to the type of jibe to be done with the spinnaker up. If the pole is too long, you cannot do a dip pole jibe. You would be limited to a end to end jibe. This worked great on my SJ26 and I could do it single handed with the autopilot. In the 34, it takes a mighty strong couple of crewmembers to wrestle the pole across, snap it on to the other sheet, then snap it to the mast. The dip pole method is much easier although the rigging for it is more complex. The 30+ is right in that border line range where either could be used.

The sailing area where I sail tends to lend itself to long spinnaker runs (beam reach to dead run) with sometimes greatly variable wind speeds. The 34 carries an intimidating Triradial ( Ok, I got it up, how amI going to get it down?). Because of advanced years and shorthanded crews, I put it in an ATN sleeve. Now, I can set the pole up, raise the halyard, make sure the rig is ready then raise the sleeve. For shorthanded jibing, lower the sleeve, end to end jibe the pole. When the sleeve moves to the other side, raise it and take off again. For racing, I remove the ATN and pack the spinnaker normally. This really helps the old guy who really loves the 'chute but realizes that it's really too big for him.

To me, Sharonov's choice of mast storage remains tempting. It's just a lot more expensive, and sure--we can live without it. Especially with a CF pole, the windage and weight aloft would not be much of a factor, it's more the expense and additional gear.

It is getting the pole on and off the mast, and manipulating it by hand in a seaway, that is the main issue with poles.

A mast rig means the butt stays on the mast all the time, and a dip-pole jibe is easy, and there is less chance of losing the pole overboard.

I have a Forespar line-control whisker pole, which is a big improvement over the buttons of my former aluminum telescoping pole. Length adjustment is easy and immediate. However, the force on the control line, which alone maintains the length of the pole against compression, is very great.

Carbon fiber poles are light but expensive. Any rubbing on a stay can quickly penetrate the CF. CF has to be painted, or coated, or kept in a bag against UV. I like mine OK, but it's a luxury, like the vertical pole storage system.

Some time ago, I gave up on the deck storage mounts - just not enough side deck on my boat. There literally wasn’t room to walk around the pole. I tried vertical storage for a while, but the hardware was never intended for that. Though it can be done with some kludging, it’s not really a facile transition. For now, it’s on the lifeline with one end clipped to the shroud and the other bungied to the pulpit. Works OK, but doesn’t look quite right.
Also needs some fine tuning for integration with the kayak rack I installed last season.

Great advice from all.

The boat right now is very stripped down. No Spinnaker hardware, but the mast does have an unused masthead sheave and a mid-mast exit plate for a topping lift.

First stage is just get it set up for a whisker pole, but while I'm doing the work I figured I might as well plan ahead and have it ready to eventually fly a full spinnaker. So I'm leaning towards putting an adjustable car and track on the mast. It seems like 1 1/4" track is standard for that. I'm just wondering how long a track I should use if I'm eventually going to fly a full spinnaker. 5 feet? 10ft? 12ft?
(J=13.7, I = 42).

Oh, and great spinnaker pics, too.

Ken,

I will measure my track length when I'm at the boat in the next few days but it runs from ~ 8 inches above the deck to just below the lower spreaders so it's at least 10 feet long and probably closer to 12 feet. You want to be able to drop the mast end of pole close to the deck so you can tack the jib over it and also make it easier to step over the pole with it still attached to the mast. The pole is around six feet off the deck when flying the chute and you need to raise the mast end even higher to get the pole to swing through the fore triangle - above the deck and inside the forestay.

Mark

One more note: Plan ahead. I ordered some mast track (for the trysail) from WM with the “free shipping to store” option. Every week, they say”It’ll be on next Tuesday’s truck.” Fourth Tuesday coming up now...