Sailing to wind

mjsouleman · Sep 12, 2017

Chesapeake Bay, September 8-10 2017; Wind direction: NNE; Wind Speed: 16-20 knots; Seas: 2-3 foot North to South;
Launch location: Herrington Harbor North; Destination: Annapolis

That's the scenario folks.

I set myself up due East to begin a tack motion along a rhumb line. This was slow going until I came mid Eastern bay with tide running out as well as my sailing skills.

Unable to turn into my next tack because the waves beat me back and stalled forward motion, I gave up the ghost, dropped sails and in shame motored to my location.

Any suggestions.. You can use Active Captain to get a visual of Chesapeake bay and the planned trip.

MJS

Frank Langer · Sep 12, 2017

What sails did you have up, and what adjustments were in place - - any reefs in the headsail or mainsail, backstay adjuster, boom vang, outhaul, etc.? Were the waves rollers or breaking? All these things affect ability to make progress. Sometimes when the waves are really choppy and wind is "squirrelly"(technical term

) I'll keep the sails up and add a bit of motor speed, just a few knots to help me punch through the waves.
Frank

GrandpaSteve · Sep 12, 2017

I was sailing Saturday, just running Between Rock Hall to North of Gibson Island and back. I think it would have been difficult to make much progress North without a motor.

GrandpaSteve · Sep 12, 2017

GrandpaSteve said:
I was sailing Saturday, just running Between Rock Hall to North of Gibson Island and back. I think it would have been difficult to make much progress North without a motor.

Often when you see those boats heading to weather at improbable angles, if you look carefully you will see they are motorsailing.

Christian Williams · Sep 12, 2017

You didn't mention reefs. Also, older sails, if you have them, are just not very good at that sort of thing.

Navman · Sep 12, 2017

I was going South on the Chesapeake Bay on Saturday so I really did not have the tacking issues you did ( I was doing downwind tacks) but on my trip back on Sunday on the conditions were pretty rough in the morning until around noon. I departed Clements Creek (solo) off the Servern River at 2 am. so as to get into the bay in time to catch the tide. My destination was Worton Creek, about 45 nm. to the north. The tide was still outgoing when I arrived at the bay bridge ( bad timing on my part) and it was still dark. The wind was fairly steady at 20 knots. As the wind was going the same direction as the tide and had a fetch of approximately 50- 60 miles, the waves were very close, high and steep. I was motoring and was nearly being stalled by some of the waves. Once I got safely clear of the bridge I bore off of the wind and went on a "tack". Being slightly off of my rhumb line allowed for a more comfortable ride and much greater speed. When I was even with the north end of Kent island, there was enough daylight that I raised sail. It was blowing a littler harder by now with gusts. I raised the full main and pulled the jib out just to the shrouds. Once I got the sails trimmed she sailed herself with the wheel locked off. Tacking was not a problem as when I was ready to tack, I bore away a bit to gain more speed then I tacked through the wind as quickly as I could, turning the wheel as smoothly as I could, picking my way through the next oncoming set of waves. I then eased out the jib to gain speed on the new tack and then trimmed it in to position. I then pulled the traveler to the windward as far as it could go, locked off the wheel and rode out the next tack while below making coffee and eggs. My sails are old and not in the best of shape, but I have found that in a high wave situation you really need to bear away just before the tack to gain that additional speed needed to come through the wind and waves. It is also important to judge the timing of the tack so you can avoid being stalled or having to slam through a wave as best as you can. I made the 40nm in 4 tacks. The best way to find out how to get your boat to tack through in such conditions is to just get out there in those same conditions and do it until you find out the correct sequence. Good luck and keep on trying!

GrandpaSteve · Sep 12, 2017

Hey Navman, was that you heading south Saturday with either a reacher or asym spinnaker? It was amazing how few boats were sailing on Saturday. I had the first reef in and Genoa rolled out to the shrouds only. Max GPS recorded speed that day - 6.65 knots on my old sails.

mjsouleman · Sep 12, 2017

Navman;

I also think I saw you also Sunday.

You have described the conditions correctly. I began under full sail Saturday afternoon about 1630. About 1930 in the dark I was not able to see my wind direction (tell tales only, no wind gauge).
I was limited to watching the genoa and main for luffing to know if I was pinching the wind to tightly. When I could not see the tell tales is when I reefed (a mile short of Bloody point) but by then I was stalling during my tack.

I didn't have the presence of mind to flatten the main (move the genoa track closer to the cock pit) during this wild ride (tide and wind NNE) and I didn't fall off the wind before tacking.

You're right, more practice and help from the Ericson team.

MJS

Navman said:
I was going South on the Chesapeake Bay on Saturday so I really did not have the tacking issues you did ( I was doing downwind tacks) but on my trip back on Sunday on the conditions were pretty rough in the morning until around noon. I departed Clements Creek (solo) off the Servern River at 2 am. so as to get into the bay in time to catch the tide. My destination was Worton Creek, about 45 nm. to the north. The tide was still outgoing when I arrived at the bay bridge ( bad timing on my part) and it was still dark. The wind was fairly steady at 20 knots. As the wind was going the same direction as the tide and had a fetch of approximately 50- 60 miles, the waves were very close, high and steep. I was motoring and was nearly being stalled by some of the waves. Once I got safely clear of the bridge I bore off of the wind and went on a "tack". Being slightly off of my rhumb line allowed for a more comfortable ride and much greater speed. When I was even with the north end of Kent island, there was enough daylight that I raised sail. It was blowing a littler harder by now with gusts. I raised the full main and pulled the jib out just to the shrouds. Once I got the sails trimmed she sailed herself with the wheel locked off. Tacking was not a problem as when I was ready to tack, I bore away a bit to gain more speed then I tacked through the wind as quickly as I could, turning the wheel as smoothly as I could, picking my way through the next oncoming set of waves. I then eased out the jib to gain speed on the new tack and then trimmed it in to position. I then pulled the traveler to the windward as far as it could go, locked off the wheel and rode out the next tack while below making coffee and eggs. My sails are old and not in the best of shape, but I have found that in a high wave situation you really need to bear away just before the tack to gain that additional speed needed to come through the wind and waves. It is also important to judge the timing of the tack so you can avoid being stalled or having to slam through a wave as best as you can. I made the 40nm in 4 tacks. The best way to find out how to get your boat to tack through in such conditions is to just get out there in those same conditions and do it until you find out the correct sequence. Good luck and keep on trying!

bgary · Sep 12, 2017

Navman said:
I bore away a bit to gain more speed then I tacked through the wind as quickly as I could, turning the wheel as smoothly as I could, picking my way through the next oncoming set of waves. I then eased out the jib to gain speed on the new tack and then trimmed it in to position.

This ^^^ is the secret-sauce for tacking in windy-and-bumpy conditions.

-- bear off a little for speed
-- watch the waves ahead and pick a flat spot (don't be in mid-tack on top of a wave!)
-- turn the boat briskly through the eye of the wind
-- stay a little "fat" initially on the new tack to build speed - don't pinch!
-- ...and then come up onto course on the new tack.

Navman · Sep 12, 2017

Grandpa Steve and MJS,
i was headed south from Rock Hall Saturday. I was at the bay bridge @ 10:00 am +-. I did not have my spinnaker up but I did have my head sail up, not a screacher but it is about a 165, so it may look like a screacher from afar. I was surprised at how few boats were out on such a gorgeous day! It wasn't until about noon that I began to see boats on the water. My average speed was around 6-6.5 knots. Hit 7.8. Then when I got south of the bridge and began to heads west into the Severn my speed pick up more as it was a near reach. Was averaging 7's all the way in. On the Severn near Annapolis I had to duck, dodge and weave my way through 3 different races. Lost wind at the second bridge. ALL GREAT FUN!!!
Hope to see you all at the fall raft up! Check out the details to date on the Regional forum Mid-Atlantic/ Chesapeake.

Sail On!
:egrin:

frick · Sep 12, 2017

Sheet angles for going to weather

Move your Jib Sheet Blocks far aft... This will help pull the jib as flat as you can, almost touching the spreaders.

This will do several good thinhgs

1: Flattening de-powers the jib, which means more sail up in a heaver head wind. (=More Speed)
2: It will give you a better shape on the top and bottom of the leach. (You can point higher)
3: Reduce the main (with reef) to reduce your weather helm, or spill more wind by easing the sheets and lowering the traveler.

Rick+

mjsouleman · Sep 13, 2017

Thanks for the advice.

Now I have advice and experience, what could go wrong... Oh I forgot.

So motoring into the wind, I have been told (Post experience) that it is extremely bad to motor into the wind and waves where the bow nose dives into on coming waves.

At the time, this felt better than rolling (short periodicity between waves on the Chesapeake).

MJS

GrandpaSteve · Sep 13, 2017

mjsouleman said:
Thanks for the advice.

Now I have advice and experience, what could go wrong... Oh I forgot.

So motoring into the wind, I have been told (Post experience) that it is extremely bad to motor into the wind and waves where the bow nose dives into on coming waves.

At the time, this felt better than rolling (short periodicity between waves on the Chesapeake).

MJS

Motoring into the wind with no sails up - sometimes you just have to get where you are going, no problem being a motorboat when you need to be.

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Sailing to wind

mjsouleman

Sustaining Member

Frank Langer

1984 Ericson 30+, Nanaimo, BC

GrandpaSteve

Sustaining Member

GrandpaSteve

Sustaining Member

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles

Navman

Member III

GrandpaSteve

Sustaining Member

mjsouleman

Sustaining Member

bgary

Advanced Beginner

Navman

Member III

frick

Member III

mjsouleman

Sustaining Member

GrandpaSteve

Sustaining Member