Repairing a bent winch drum - is it possible? Side question on winch pads and angles

So, I'm looking to upgrade my E-23 Mk II Barlow 15 winches to something self-tailing. Right now I've got 1 Lewmar 16 CST. I want a matching one, but don't want to pay full price for a new one. I have an option to get another one at a very good price that is in perfect condition in every way but the one that's probably most important--the base of the winch drum itself isn't perfectly round. It may have been dropped or something at some point. There are two slightly flat spots--one on either side of the winch base--that occasionally catch on the gear when the winch is turning.

I think I know the answer, but is it possible to "spread" the winch drum at those spots to make it round enough to function without a problem? If so, how would one do this? Anyone ever done it before?

I will note that when I contacted Lewmar about this, they said "get a replacement drum." That doesn't surprise me, but the replacement drum would be more than what I'd pay for the currently damaged winch, and together, would be as much as a brand new one.

Side question--anyone also installed winch pads to get the right angle of attack for their jib sheets? I measured and the Barlow 15s mounted right on the coaming seem to be quite a bit lower than the recommended angle (the Lewmar 16s should be at 5-8 degrees). Also, is it good, bad, or does it matter at all that the winches are angled out away from the center of the boat? I've tried to find anything about vertical angles in winch placement and haven't found anything.

Second side question--thoughts on putting the Barlow 15s further back as a second set of winches for a genny? I've heard of others doing this but not sure if it's overkill for this boat.

My experience has been that worn out winches can't be effectively fixed. The current or previous owner has always tried everything, and couldn;t find the part or found the part--as you did--to be too expensive.

Many old winches wobble. Looks easy to fix with new race or similar. But what has happenedis that the drum itself is worn. Can't be sleeved. Replacement is expensive.

In the case of a deformed winch, you can always visit a machine shop for an opinion. It's free.

So here's a way of looking at it: you don't really need a self-tailing winch on a 23-foot boat, even if solo.

And if you have company, the phrase "here, pull on this while I crank" is free.

Not being a wiseguy. New winch is expensive, and the cost often makes the current winch look awfully good.

Places such as Minnie's Yacht Salvage do have lots of used winches that nobody wants. Any good one that comes in lasts 10 minutes, but it's always worth a try.

pheiner said:

is it possible to "spread" the winch drum at those spots to make it round enough to function without a problem?

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Possible? perhaps. But it'll never be right. At best it'll be a weak-spot forever, at worst it'll crack where it was pressed out. Not worth the time/expense IMHO

pheiner said:

Side question--anyone also installed winch pads to get the right angle of attack for their jib sheets?

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the secret sauce for winch positioning is that you want a fair lead, not rubbing on any coamings or such, so that the line comes up into the drum at a slight angle. That's to avoid overrides and other ugliness, both when tailing and when grinding.



For most of our boats, the winch itself (by having a base that elevates the working part of the drum up a couple of inches) achieves that angle without any pad. Where I have pads on my boat, it is because the mounting surface is at an angle (eg, either side of the companionway on the coach-roof) and a pad is there to get the winch to a neutral/vertical position.

I've never been a fan of angling winches outboard - in areas of *very* high load, it may be necessary in order to ensure that the axis of the winch is lined up with the load, but for us mere mortals, it just means you have to lean farther outboard to be in a good position to grind.

$.02
Bruce

More on correcting the sheet feed angles for winches in my blog entries from 2011. There were several blog entries.
http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/entry.php?17-Finally-Sailing!

It takes some work, but this is (IMHO) something any patient owner can do. I have seen other boats with teak risers, for instance.

It is still one of the top upgrades we have done for our boat, i.e. the kind of thing you appreciate every time you sail it.

Bent winch

If the base is deformed, chances are thatthe lower bearing surface is egg shaped, with the long axis on the edges away from the flat spots. The question is: HOW FAR OUT OF ROUND is it?
Two flat spots say it was not dropped, but crushed bttween two hard surfaces.

Vagabond39 said:

If the base is deformed, chances are thatthe lower bearing surface is egg shaped, with the long axis on the edges away from the flat spots. The question is: HOW FAR OUT OF ROUND is it?

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Good point--it may well have been pressed. Only one of the deformities, however, is significant enough to lock the teeth. When grinding, you can hear it as the teeth pass that spot, but it won't seize every time. I haven't done this under load, though, so I expect it would happen more often when it's got a sheet on it. You can see it in pictures below.

Er, have you tried a hammer? The drum is just aluminum, a little correction might work. A few careful whacks would tell.

I'd certainly show it to a machine shop, which would know all the tricks.

Christian Williams said:

Er, have you tried a hammer? The drum is just aluminum, a little correction might work. A few careful whacks would tell.

I'd certainly show it to a machine shop, which would know all the tricks.

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"Plus One" on finding a machinist to have a look at it. I know several that have been members of our little club for decades, and they all love a challenge in working with metal. Usually it's not even about $, but the fun of finding a solution.
It always surprises me how gentle (in the hands of the right person) a multi ton press can be!