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E30+ Keel

gkjtexoma

Member II
Hello all!

Just had our E30+ acquired in March hauled out for a bottom job, elimination of a few through hulls, new seacocks, routing the cockpit scuppers to through-hulls on the transom or overhang (crossed), a name change (Freeform -- did you know the name Island Time has been in the top ten boat name list for the past several years?), compounding/wax and some other things that I'm sure will add up.

Haul Out.jpg

One thing I noticed was the keel junction:

Keel Junction.jpg

There is also a dent, from some time back it appears, on the keel (had trouble uploading the large file):

image002.jpg

It looks there was a bit of a bump. My questions are:

1. Is this something to be concerned about?

The yard manager says there are two ways to address it: clean the area, lift on slings and inject Boat Life caulk, set it back to rest on the keel and tighten keels bolts.

2. Is this a good approach?
3. Wouldn't 5200 be better for this application?
4. How does one get to keel bolts on an E30+?

The second approach would be to grind an area around the joint and glass it in.

5. How about this approach?
6. He estimated $1800 for this -- isn't that rather high?


7. What about using a fairing compound over the joint? Should the dent be faired?
8. Any 'must do' things while it is hauled?


I am looking forward to the sage and robust comments. Thanks in advance and have a great Fourth of July!
 

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Afrakes

Sustaining Member
Keel

Yes, something to be concerned about. Level of concern depends on a number of things. Just how loose are the keel bolts? How large is the crack and how deep does it penetrate? Is water weeping out of the open joint? Have you been fighting excess water accumulating in the bilge? Long term fix is to drop the keel and properly re-bed. $$$$ Short term fix, follow the yards recommendation. The keel certainly met a really hard object to cause that much deformation of the lead. The impact more than likely cracked and weakened the hull/keel transition. Somebody might have already tried the quick fix and this is the result. Re-fairing the keel to its original lines would be a good thing to do.
 

Frank Langer

1984 Ericson 30+, Nanaimo, BC
Hi,
I agree with Al, that the keel hit something pretty hard to make a dent like that. I would therefore also look for any signs of delamination, especially in the bilge under the floorboards (hard to see in there, but possible), and fix that before doing anything else, if you do find a problem there. Perhaps even a surveyor to check for that might be a good idea.

I would fair the dent, as I think it will look and sail better, and likely isn't that expensive to do.

As for the keel, if you are planning on keeping the boat a long time, and want to do it right, it's probably best to drop the keel, rebed it, and ensure the keel bolts are tightened correctly. I'm guessing this has not been done on your boat in some time, if ever, and it will likely need it at some point, so maybe now might give you peace of mind knowing it's done right. If you don't do this, I would grind out the keel crack/joint and recaulk with 4200 and get advice whether it should also be covered with a layer of fibreglass cloth/resin. And check the keel bolts for proper tightness. If you see signs of a problem in the future (water in the bilge, re-cracking of the joint, etc.) you could still drop the keel and rebed at that time if you don't do it now.

The keel bolts are quite easy to access on the E30+. You will see several of them in the small bilge areas. There are two more--one forward, almost under the compression post and one aft at the corner of the settee/locker across from the nav station, though a bit forward of that.

While you are hauled, remember to check the cutless bearing for wear. They tend to last a long time, but do wear out eventually. After launching, if you have a packless shaft seal (PSS), remember to burp it to allow water in for a moment to lubricate the carbon piece; if a regular stuffing box, adjust to get the right drip level. Also, after launching and with the boat settled in the water for a few days (they change shape a bit in the water) you might want to check the engine alignment, as poor alignment causes uncomfortable vibration and premature wear of the cutless bearing. There is lots of information on this site on how to check alignment--a time consuming and awkward process, but well worth it and easily done yourself.

The E30+ are a lovely boat! We have had ours for 11 years, and they sail so well and are easier than many to maintain. I hope you can get these initial repairs done well, and then enjoy your boat for many years!

Frank
 
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fool

Member III
Not to complicate your issue. Might be best to have a closer look at the dent with the growth scrubbed off and bottom paint sanded back a bit. I believe you might have an encapsulated lead keel. Water penetration into an enclosed keel could become an issue especially if you haul and block during the winter in sub freezing temps. It would also be an issue if you had encapsulated steel for your keel. I wouldn't use 5200 to bed a keel. It would make it tougher to deal with any future repairs if required. The yard has likely seen this before and I'd follow their advice.
 

gkjtexoma

Member II
Happy 4th to all,

Thanks for the suggestions. I sent an email to the PO and he essentially answered with 'I know nothing". But he did indicate that the boat has been serviced by my marina for its known life -- he even thinks their sales side sold it. I'm not aware of them carrying the Ericson line, but it could be. I plan to have a discussion with the service manager and, hopefully, he best fiberglass guy tomorrow. They used to build Valiants so there should be some expertise left.

I'll post what we decide.




Graham
 

gkjtexoma

Member II
Greetings all,

On Wednesday I visited the marina yard and surprisingly found my E30+ already had her bottom job completed -- I didn't expect that to happen so quickly. The marina folks I chatted with were very helpful. It seems she was involved in an underwater collision in 2013 and had repairs to the keel, a reinforcing plate installed under keel bolts and the whole cabin sole replaced plus a few other things. I am happy to see the repairs were done correctly (like I stated above, the yard has people who used to build Valiants).

Thanks again for the suggestions. I wouldn't have found out about this bit of history on my boat unless I'd been motivated to investigate further and you guys provided that motivation.

I also added my signature with the information I've seen recommended. I uploaded an avatar, but don't see how it make to display. Maybe it's automatic. Ahhh -- I see now -- it is automatic.
 

jacksonkev

Member III
Nice bottom!

She is officially Freeform! Just a few more things for the yard to do -- then relaunch!.


View attachment 22436

She looks like a beauty! Here's a pic of my '81 30+ Cetus...these boats really look nice from this angle!

IMG_4851.jpg

I had a question (and possible suggestion) for you...

-You mentioned changing your cockpit scuppers configurations...I'm curious what you learned and how you like the new setup? I purchased Cetus a few years ago and have been mulling the (IMHO) poor design of the drains (galley sink, cockpit, icebox) since. I owned an Ericson 29 for about a decade and liked it's simplicity by comparison.

-Also, I blew up your photo and am curious about the strength (possible safety) of your mainsheet system. It appears that you have a mid boom 4:1 vang with a single point of contact (fairly far forward) on the boom. Seems like it would be difficult to sheet in and (not to be an alarmist) I'd be leary of bending the boom in strong winds. My E29 had a cabin top, mid boom 6:1 mainsheet with 3 blocks on the boom, Cetus has a (new!) Harken Carbo 4:1 end boom (sort of....more like 2 feet from the end) with 2 single blocks on the boom and a fiddle base block. Not sure what wind you typically sail in but you may want to poke around Harken's website for options (and load specs). I regularly sail in 25+ knots in SF Bay...so, it might be more my issue. Again...not trying to be an alarmist, it's just that I fairly recently replaced my old mainsheet and did a fair amount of research.

Happy sailing!
 

gkjtexoma

Member II
Hello there Jackson,

On the scuppers, my original thinking was to have port and starboard scuppers run oppositely to starboard and port un-seacocked through-hulls on the transom or overhang. The guys at the yard offered another approach -- just connect both scuppers together through a 'Y' and run the output to a single through-hull. Since we are on an inland lake, this will be sufficient I'm sure. I'd think for normal coastal sailing it would be as well. The many years of Islander Bahama 30s had this configuration. This got rid of the PVC tee on the 1-1/4" through hull -- it is now just servicing the sink. They capped off the old seacock for the starboard scupper. They took out the holding tank and capped off the through hulls that were associated with the marine toilet. We will be using a portable type toilet. I never did like going to the pump out periodically.

The mainsheet is the way it came from the PO -- we just bought it in March. The single point connection to the boom is undoubtedly weak and the purchase probably is less than desirable. I was going to post as a question on what mainsail sheeting is optimum for the 30+. Could you send a photo of yours? I am looking for ideas. The blocks the PO used are pretty good, so it would be nice if I can incorporate them into a better scheme.

The 30+ really does looks nice from our photographs views! I dropped by the marina last night to find Freeform in the water tied up next to the travel lift facility. She looks rather dirty on the topsides. I'm glad a topside washdown is included in the bottom job price. They are going to use their bucket truck to check out the standing rigging, the main halyard sheave, install a new Windex and replace the mast lights with LED types.

THEN -- maybe we can sail away!




Graham
 

jacksonkev

Member III
Thanks for the description of your cockpit scuppers, Graham. Makes sense to me. I'll likely address it when I haul out and paint next spring.

As for the mainsheet...I hear you. It's nice to save and use hardware from the PO. Below is a photo of my old mainsheet system. Notice, my traveller is still located in the cockpit. I'd guess your PO changed it to a cabin top traveller/mainsheet. There are positives and negatives to both setups. I ended up going with a 4:1 Harken Carbo Air (75mm ratchet fiddle and (2) 57mm single blocks). I may add a finetune down the road. I wanted to sail it without one before making the decision. I'm a little on the fence but I can see the advantage of being able to quickly blow the main and the extra 16:1 fine tune purchase would make trimming in big winds a lot easier on my wife. You could easily replace your top fiddle block with (2) singles (ideally using 2 boom bails aft of your current one). This would disperse the load a little better. From previous experience on my E29 with cabin top traveller, I'd say a 6:1 with 3 single blocks on the boom would be best though. Keep in mind the E30+ has a rather large main for it's size. There will be a fair amount of force on the boom (and that force increases exponentially as you move forward on the boom). Ask the rigger when you have your rig looked at. He may see something that I'm not seeing.

My old mainsheet:

IMG_6234.jpg

My new Harken mainsheet (minus fine-tune)(I don't have any pics):

4-1-16-1dble-GF_mainsheet.gif

Random pic I found on google of a 6:1 mainsheet setup that I think would be best for you:

mainsheet 61.jpg

Lastly, if you end up changing your mainsheet, you can incorporate that 4:1 vang into an backstay adjuster like I did :egrin: like this one...

back4.gif

The Harken website is very helpful and I would also start a thread here about converting to a cabin top traveller and see if any E30+ owners chime in. As firsthand knowledge would be best.

Good luck and happy sailing on your NEW BOAT!
 
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