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Rigging

Willpatten

Member II
Wow, haven't been on here in a while. How's everyone doing?
This weekend I was sailing my E38-200 in 16-18 knots.
Full main, full 135 jib.
On a starboard tack I could easily balance the boat. Zero weather helm. 6.2 - 6.5 knots.

On the port tack I couldn't balance the boat (reducing weather helm to zero).
Had to ease the traveler to reduce, but not remove, weather helm. Max speed 5.5 - 5.7 knots.
Trimmed the jib to exactly the same spot on both sides. All tell tales streaming on both tacks.

I was single-handing so it wasn't crew movement.
The wind was constant.

What does that say about my rigging?
I believe mast is in column and rigging tension equal on both sides. I'll check again.
 

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Sometimes the angle at which the boat meets the waves is quite different, tack to tack. A lumpier path does reduce speed noticeably....
 

Frank Langer

1984 Ericson 30+, Nanaimo, BC
I've noticed consistently that my 1984 E30+ will sail about a half knot faster on port tack than on starboard tack. I have re-tuned the rig at least a half dozen times in the ten years we've owned the boat and am confident that the tuning is pretty good. I have stored stuff in as balanced a way as possible, though there are limits to that due to location of water tanks, holding tank, lockers, etc.

The feel on the wheel/weather helm is the same on both tacks. If I set sail trim correctly and winds are stable, she will hold her course nicely without any steering correction--I can set the wheel brake to hold her steady and just relax while she sails herself, though at a half knot faster on port tack than starboard of course! :)

I have no idea why this occurs, but it is consistent in all weather conditions. I wonder how many boats are similarly faster on one tack than another...

Frank
 

Alan Gomes

Sustaining Partner
I've noticed consistently that my 1984 E30+ will sail about a half knot faster on port tack than on starboard tack. I have re-tuned the rig at least a half dozen times in the ten years we've owned the boat and am confident that the tuning is pretty good. I have stored stuff in as balanced a way as possible, though there are limits to that due to location of water tanks, holding tank, lockers, etc.

The feel on the wheel/weather helm is the same on both tacks. If I set sail trim correctly and winds are stable, she will hold her course nicely without any steering correction--I can set the wheel brake to hold her steady and just relax while she sails herself, though at a half knot faster on port tack than starboard of course! :)

I have no idea why this occurs, but it is consistent in all weather conditions. I wonder how many boats are similarly faster on one tack than another...

Frank
With the boat on the hard have ever you sighted the keel and rudder to see if they are in line with each other and also both perpendicular to the bottom of the boat? Walk around a boat yard sometime and take a look at the different boats. Sometimes you'll find that these are surprisingly off.
 

Frank Langer

1984 Ericson 30+, Nanaimo, BC
Thanks for your reply. Yes, I have checked carefully while the boat was on the hard. The hull, keel and rudder looked aligned and shaped properly. I've measured to see if the mast could be installed slightly off centre but it's equidistant from both sides.
But I would welcome any additional thoughts.
Frank
 

Willpatten

Member II
Thanks for you help.
Yes, I have checked the keel while on the hard.
I think, upon further reflection, it's about weight distribution.
My boat has a 60 gallon fuel tank and a 30 gallon water tank on port side opposing 5 battery bank, an empty holding tank and a 20 gallon water tank.
Than would put a lot of weight to windward on a port tank.
Do you think that might do it?
 

Alan Gomes

Sustaining Partner
Thanks for you help.
Yes, I have checked the keel while on the hard.
I think, upon further reflection, it's about weight distribution.
My boat has a 60 gallon fuel tank and a 30 gallon water tank on port side opposing 5 battery bank, an empty holding tank and a 20 gallon water tank.
Than would put a lot of weight to windward on a port tank.
Do you think that might do it?
When you say that you "checked the keel while on the hard," did you specifically stand a distance back from the stern of the boat and sight the bottom of the rudder in relation to the keel, to see if they are in the same plane? Depending upon how far off they might be I could see it making a noticeable difference.
 

ddoles

Member III
On my E38-200 the boat has a slight starboard list. I've since learned that this is common on some Ericson models. I've done some experimenting and figure I would need maybe 300 lbs of ballast on the port side to balance this out. If your E38-200 is similar the extra weight on the starboard side would flatten the boat a bit more on starboard tack. I'm not sure if it would account for the significant difference you are seeing, but could be one factor.
 

G Kiba

Sustaining Member
Port vs Starboard Tack

Yep here.
My E27 sails faster and points higher on a port tack. Casual discussion with a professional rigger... "Just sail on that side." Great!
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
The Hull Truth

The part of the discussion about balance-at-rest has come up here before. Our O-34 has a noticeable port list unless the starboard settee water tank is full. This probably affects sailing a bit, too.
A quick walk around our moorage reveals quite a number of boat makes and sizes with slight lists either way - less so in boat weighing over 12k or more. I suspect that furniture and tankage is more of a factor in "smaller" boats. Also, the newer boats with their extreme "condominium beam" measurement also have a lot more form stability and therefore will sit more level. :rolleyes:

Your BK designed boat has a sailing-oriented hull form with modest waterline beam for less wetted surface, and so will be more affected by loading. That's my theory... based on decades of observation and unencumbered by education. :)

That keel-and-rudder checking would likely be the real place for learning. While I know that our keel and rudder are lined up and looked vertically-aligned with the hull, what I have never done is to template the keel while it's on the hard. Even a template at, say, three locations should be quite enough to show if there is any foil difference between one side and the other. Same with the rudder foil. I would bet a dollar that there is a slight difference and that this alone would produce a difference enough in "lift' to account for a little pointing difference between one tack and the other.
Maybe.
Perhaps.

Random geeky thoughts - no value.
:nerd:

Loren
 

toddster

Curator of Broken Parts
Blogs Author
I was thinking about this yesterday, since we had, for a while, a relatively calm day with nice 12-15 knot winds and flat water. (Not the usual mix-master chop with nuclear blasts.) And it's not my imagination. The boat is a lot faster on port tack. When the tanks are empty, the boat has a distinct list to port, since the galley and most cabinetry is on that side. I've got it somewhat balanced by filling the water tank and using only the starboard side for storage, as much as possible. The mast is straight - I measured it and re-tensioned the shrouds a couple of months ago.

But... could the knotmeter have some inherent error from being on one side of the boat? Will have to check this against the GPS.
 
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