E 39 mast step
- Thread starter jim239
- Start date
gadangit
Member III
Hi Jim-
What does your mast step look like now? The link below has a picture of what my mast step looks like. I don't have a "grid", so to speak. As you can see from the picture, the step is embedded in the keel, presumably attached in a sturdy way. What have you got?
http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/showthread.php?12046-E39-Mast-Step
Chris
gadangit
Member III
Hi Jim-
I've never seen another E39 so I only have my boat as a reference point. My guess is that you have the one piece molded sole throughout the saloon and galley. And no way to get in there to do anything. We had the same and chopped out the whole thing so we could gain access to the 40+ years of filth, replace rusted steel beams, water tank, wiring, everything BUT replace the step which looks pretty good.
Here is the sole with removable panels, soon to be clad with a pretty flooring material.
Underneath originally was just a continuous space. The big blocks of lead in the keel are directly under that and that is what the various carbon steel components were attached to. I've heard there is an actual steel beam in there as well, but our boat just had large cubes of lead with bolts threaded in to hold the aft steel athwartship beam that ties the aft bulkhead together. Our athwartship steel beam was in pretty bad shape, so we glassed in a G10 beam to replace it. The original glass that was over the lead pieces had actually delaminated off the lead, so we removed it all, dried out the putrid water that had gathered down next to the lead, refoamed the blocks back in place and glassed the whole mass back together. It sounds like more work that it actually was.
Here is the new G10 beam, I'm hoping for another 40 years out of it:
In order to have a real sole, we needed some athwartship support for removable panels. Here are two of them:
I bring all this up for two reasons:
1. I think to properly fix your step, you are going to need to make some room to work. Like removing a bit of your sole (probably soul too.)
2. I am still not exactly sure how our mast step is tied structurally into the boat, but when I was working on the sole, I was thinking that I could probably box in the step and tie into our athwartship sole supports. I decided to just leave well enough alone and moved on to the many many other projects that I am working on.
If I had to make a new step, I would first want to get out the old one and see how the heck that is tied in. I'd probably build a new mast step out of G10, mostly because it is a material I can work with without having to hire someone and it is perfect for an occasionally wet environment. And it is stronger than all get out.
I know this didn't answer your question directly, but hopefully it gives you a peek into what is under your feet. Just keep asking questions, there are others much more knowledgeable than I that have answers as well.
Regards-
Chris
I've never seen another E39 so I only have my boat as a reference point. My guess is that you have the one piece molded sole throughout the saloon and galley. And no way to get in there to do anything. We had the same and chopped out the whole thing so we could gain access to the 40+ years of filth, replace rusted steel beams, water tank, wiring, everything BUT replace the step which looks pretty good.
Here is the sole with removable panels, soon to be clad with a pretty flooring material.
Underneath originally was just a continuous space. The big blocks of lead in the keel are directly under that and that is what the various carbon steel components were attached to. I've heard there is an actual steel beam in there as well, but our boat just had large cubes of lead with bolts threaded in to hold the aft steel athwartship beam that ties the aft bulkhead together. Our athwartship steel beam was in pretty bad shape, so we glassed in a G10 beam to replace it. The original glass that was over the lead pieces had actually delaminated off the lead, so we removed it all, dried out the putrid water that had gathered down next to the lead, refoamed the blocks back in place and glassed the whole mass back together. It sounds like more work that it actually was.
Here is the new G10 beam, I'm hoping for another 40 years out of it:
In order to have a real sole, we needed some athwartship support for removable panels. Here are two of them:
I bring all this up for two reasons:
1. I think to properly fix your step, you are going to need to make some room to work. Like removing a bit of your sole (probably soul too.)
2. I am still not exactly sure how our mast step is tied structurally into the boat, but when I was working on the sole, I was thinking that I could probably box in the step and tie into our athwartship sole supports. I decided to just leave well enough alone and moved on to the many many other projects that I am working on.
If I had to make a new step, I would first want to get out the old one and see how the heck that is tied in. I'd probably build a new mast step out of G10, mostly because it is a material I can work with without having to hire someone and it is perfect for an occasionally wet environment. And it is stronger than all get out.
I know this didn't answer your question directly, but hopefully it gives you a peek into what is under your feet. Just keep asking questions, there are others much more knowledgeable than I that have answers as well.
Regards-
Chris
Thanks Chris. that is exactly what I was thinking. Cut out the liner to reveal steel crossmember's. The one thing I don't know is how hard is it to remove the old steel beam.
It looks as though some have repaired this by just sitting the mast on a small piece of I beam. It would not add any stiffness to the hull itself. I would love to see some pictures of what the structure between the hull and liner looks like. to replace all the steel ribs is a huge job. Is it nessesary ?
Jim
It looks as though some have repaired this by just sitting the mast on a small piece of I beam. It would not add any stiffness to the hull itself. I would love to see some pictures of what the structure between the hull and liner looks like. to replace all the steel ribs is a huge job. Is it nessesary ?
Jim
gadangit
Member III
Hi Jim-
The sawzall is your friend. I get a lot of funny looks on the dock when I walk by with this in my hand. The steel beams aren't that hard, you could use a metal blade or one of the demo blades, both cut through the steel like butter. I prefer the demo blade for something like this, it is a bit more aggressive and you don't really care what the cut looks like.
Not sure what your question is about the structure between the liner and the hull? As far as I know, the liner is tabbed to the hull, nothing more.
Chris
The sawzall is your friend. I get a lot of funny looks on the dock when I walk by with this in my hand. The steel beams aren't that hard, you could use a metal blade or one of the demo blades, both cut through the steel like butter. I prefer the demo blade for something like this, it is a bit more aggressive and you don't really care what the cut looks like.
Not sure what your question is about the structure between the liner and the hull? As far as I know, the liner is tabbed to the hull, nothing more.
Chris
E 39 mast base
Looking at the steel beams under the floor in the 1970 e 39, (this is one of the first 39s built). I would guess the steel beams were an important part of the structure of the boat. In your photo it appears the mast base is just sitting on a steel pedestal. with no cross member at all. You say its been that way since new?
Jim
Looking at the steel beams under the floor in the 1970 e 39, (this is one of the first 39s built). I would guess the steel beams were an important part of the structure of the boat. In your photo it appears the mast base is just sitting on a steel pedestal. with no cross member at all. You say its been that way since new?
Jim
gadangit
Member III
Well lets just say that we were the first people to cut away the sole to even see what is under there. So I'm making the assumption that it is the original construction. Noting supporting the steel pedestal fore-aft or athwartships.
I guess I always assumed that the steel pedestal buried deep into the lead and tied into something down low.
What the heck do you have? Our boats are only 2 years apart...
Chris
I guess I always assumed that the steel pedestal buried deep into the lead and tied into something down low.
What the heck do you have? Our boats are only 2 years apart...
Chris
The boat is not mine yet. It is a 1970 model. I should have looked up the hull number. I was just trying to figure how big of a job it was to fix that mast step. If you can just cut the steel beam out of the way and build a little pedestal like you have it wouldn't be too bad but to replace the beams to original would be much more work. If the boats were all built the same then I could just fix it like yours but I don't know if the construction was the same. Its maddening that with all the info flowing around now you can't find out anything about how these boats were constructed. Not one picture,diagram, or even the original sales literature . Bruce King and Ericson must have burned everything when they went out of business.
Jim
Jim
It is a steel ibeam
The fix for all of the 39's is the same.
The sole bulkheads only support the sole. The wings on the I beam and the wings on the forward steel plate help keep the boat hull from torsion. They are best to have working well and solid.
The mast step is an I beam glassed to the top of the keel area. It can be ground out and replaced by either another steel I beam just like the one that is in there, an aluminum I beam that is almost just like the one that is in there, or you can make your own support out of Thick G-10 and glass it in there.
The whole process is easier if you cut out a bigger access hatch to get to the base of the mast.
The boat was built Almost 50 years ago now. The company has been out of business for almost 15. The fact that this forum exists and you can get these answers is amazing and a tribute to everyone on here. Bruce King deserved to retire and get away from us pesky owners after having spent the better part of 40 years of his life supporting us! LOL.
Steps to remove and replace:
Remove Mast from boat
Remove completely rusted parts of mast step from boat.
Grind off the fiberglass that covers the bottom of the I beam
Remove the 4 bolts that are threaded into the top of the keel covering laminate
Remove the rest of the mess that you just created.
Fab new one out of material of your choice as above. (Note if using G-10 I would make it more of a box section than a I section.
Replace in reverse of removal.
Guy
The fix for all of the 39's is the same.
The sole bulkheads only support the sole. The wings on the I beam and the wings on the forward steel plate help keep the boat hull from torsion. They are best to have working well and solid.
The mast step is an I beam glassed to the top of the keel area. It can be ground out and replaced by either another steel I beam just like the one that is in there, an aluminum I beam that is almost just like the one that is in there, or you can make your own support out of Thick G-10 and glass it in there.
The whole process is easier if you cut out a bigger access hatch to get to the base of the mast.
The boat was built Almost 50 years ago now. The company has been out of business for almost 15. The fact that this forum exists and you can get these answers is amazing and a tribute to everyone on here. Bruce King deserved to retire and get away from us pesky owners after having spent the better part of 40 years of his life supporting us! LOL.
Steps to remove and replace:
Remove Mast from boat
Remove completely rusted parts of mast step from boat.
Grind off the fiberglass that covers the bottom of the I beam
Remove the 4 bolts that are threaded into the top of the keel covering laminate
Remove the rest of the mess that you just created.
Fab new one out of material of your choice as above. (Note if using G-10 I would make it more of a box section than a I section.
Replace in reverse of removal.
Guy
Last edited:
gadangit
Member III
So, to be clear, there are two athwartships steel beams: one at each bulkhead. The aft beam can be replaced by G10, picture above, pretty straightforward. The forward beam, from what I've read on other E39s and on my boat, is only tied into the bulkhead on the port side which is the larger side due to the offset pass through. The beam has a wing on it to starboard that looks like it was intended to be bolted to the starboard bulkhead, but never was. As I said, I read other people discovered the same thing. I had to cut out the forward beam as it interfered with our new shower pan and I have yet to decide what to do about it.
The key to the whole thing is revealing it all. We chose to cut out the entire sole and replace with removable panels. There is a hidden watertank under the galley/quarterberth area and an amazing amount of volume forward as you can see by the pictures. We chose to gain that wasted volume for storage and I am very glad we did. The boat is drier, smells better and now has more storage.
I have to agree with Guy, this forum is absolutely amazing. The E39 does not quite have the full depth of topics covered that the models with larger production numbers, but there is quite a bit there.
Our boat is essentially rebuilt and for just a bit longer has the headliner removed. If you need any pictures or are curious about something just ask. I'd be happy to help.
Chris
The key to the whole thing is revealing it all. We chose to cut out the entire sole and replace with removable panels. There is a hidden watertank under the galley/quarterberth area and an amazing amount of volume forward as you can see by the pictures. We chose to gain that wasted volume for storage and I am very glad we did. The boat is drier, smells better and now has more storage.
I have to agree with Guy, this forum is absolutely amazing. The E39 does not quite have the full depth of topics covered that the models with larger production numbers, but there is quite a bit there.
Our boat is essentially rebuilt and for just a bit longer has the headliner removed. If you need any pictures or are curious about something just ask. I'd be happy to help.
Chris
Thanks Guy
Thanks Guy I am just frustrated by the lack of info. Feeling a bit bitchy because of a bad tooth Its my respect for Bruce King that made me skeptical. I figured if they were there, they were there for a very good reason. If what you say is true and I have no reason to doubt you with your experience. Then the boat is really not that unsound provided the I beam can still support the mast.
Jim
Thanks Guy I am just frustrated by the lack of info. Feeling a bit bitchy because of a bad tooth
Its my respect for Bruce King that made me skeptical. I figured if they were there, they were there for a very good reason. If what you say is true and I have no reason to doubt you with your experience. Then the boat is really not that unsound provided the I beam can still support the mast. Jim
markvone
Sustaining Member
Just an idea
If it were me, I would keep all the steel and aluminum out of the bilge and design a G-10 box for the mast step. This maintenance action is also the opportunity to upgrade the design. The improved design for the mast step will make a nice impression when you're selling the boat. I would make the new step big enough to support sections of the floor if that is a good idea. Also, is there a need to modify the sole to have removable sections around the mast to prevent water damage? Can the new design step support these?
You can tap G10 for threads or epoxy in threaded insets. Or simply drill a hole and use a nut and bolt to attach the actual mast step to the G10 base.
I added an emergency bilge pump mounted in the bilge last year. I didn't want any metal sitting in bilge water so I quickly went from wood to starboard to G10 for the base material. Here are a couple of pictures of the G10 base I built. I cut the pieces out of 1/2 and 3/4 inch G10 sheets I got on Ebay. It cuts it easily with a ceramic tile wet saw. I added SS threaded inserts so I could remove the top plate from the two vertical legs which are glassed into the bilge.
I checked on Google and the actual compressive strengths of G10 and steel are about the same. The little base I made for the bilge pump is WAY over built for the job. It could hold up a car.
Mark
If it were me, I would keep all the steel and aluminum out of the bilge and design a G-10 box for the mast step. This maintenance action is also the opportunity to upgrade the design. The improved design for the mast step will make a nice impression when you're selling the boat. I would make the new step big enough to support sections of the floor if that is a good idea. Also, is there a need to modify the sole to have removable sections around the mast to prevent water damage? Can the new design step support these?
You can tap G10 for threads or epoxy in threaded insets. Or simply drill a hole and use a nut and bolt to attach the actual mast step to the G10 base.
I added an emergency bilge pump mounted in the bilge last year. I didn't want any metal sitting in bilge water so I quickly went from wood to starboard to G10 for the base material. Here are a couple of pictures of the G10 base I built. I cut the pieces out of 1/2 and 3/4 inch G10 sheets I got on Ebay. It cuts it easily with a ceramic tile wet saw. I added SS threaded inserts so I could remove the top plate from the two vertical legs which are glassed into the bilge.
I checked on Google and the actual compressive strengths of G10 and steel are about the same. The little base I made for the bilge pump is WAY over built for the job. It could hold up a car.
Mark