27ft vs 34ft upkeep cost differences?

I am currently saving up for a boat i plan to purchase early next year. Its main use would be daysailing/weekending in and around the Chesapeake bay for the first year then down the east coast and across the gulf stream to island hop the bahamas/carribean. I sailed every summer as a kid sunfish, flying scot, smaller cats. I sailed around the san francisco bay area for a couple weeks with my uncle on his 39 footer he later sailed to the south pacific where he still resides today. However its been quite a few years since my last sailing excursion of any kind.

Anyway my main question is cost of upkeep, refitting etc a 27ft boat vs a 34ft boat. With the 34 needing larger sails, rigging, anchors, etc is the cost significantly higher than a 27 footer. Space is not of the utmost concern as it only needs to sleep me and the old lady and we are most likely going to spend most of our time on deck id imagine.

I understand the size of the boat is less an issue than the experience and know how of the crew, and a 34 would be relatively more comfortable in heavy seas but would it be that big of a difference if we plan to avoid heavy weather anyway and just island hop the carribean?

Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

Welcome aboard. Your plan sounds great.

All around, a 34 is significantly more money in every respect than a 27. But you knew that.

One boat is bigger than the other.

I'm not being a wiseguy. That's the difference. Comfort, expense, enjoyment--there is no objective reality.

You can daysail either boat and get away with minimum spending.

Preparing a boat for an extended cruise, when you can't head back for the dock if the engine overheats or the main halyard breaks, is expensive.

The guys who sail the singlehanded Transpac --many in boats under 30 feet--say the average preparation cost for them is 20K.

I plan on spending up to 20k. And doing my best to get a reasonably updated 70's era boat. Ericsons have come to the top of my short list to keep my eye open for. I wont rush into something just to get out on the water, i will wait for the right boat with as much of the refitting already done as possible. Im confident i can do almost any work myself that needs to be done, but id like topside to be relatively new on either boat. Id rather have any refurbishing needed to be in the cabin. From what ive seen so far i can get a pretty solid 27 footer for that money with most of what id need/want for cruising already installed, where the 34 for the same money may need a little more work unless i get lucky

I decided to stay under 35 ft because i know thats a normal point where places start charging more money. And the more money i save the longer i can cruise. So the 34 seemed great until i started thinking about replacing and refitting things while out. larger sails, larger anchors, thicker chain for anchor, heavier rigging etc. Im trying to get a boat that wont need all of these things at once but i assume they will need to be done at some point and again less money for boat more money for cruising.

Would you say the cost is 25% more to support that extra 25% in length. 50% more. I know its not an exact science but rough ballpark figures would be useful.

Would that extra money be worthwhile in sailing ease and safety as well as cabin comfort? in your experience?

Thanks again and for the warm welcome.

Cabin comfort, definitely the 34. Sailing ease and safety, I don't think there's an answer. It depends on the owner's conception of each.

Twenty thousand will get you a great 27 and maybe a good 32 or even 34. The latter two boats will be projects, and you have to want a project.

Look at a 27 and a 34, go below, imagine them for your needs.

You'll know fast what you want.

Others here, I hope, will contribute other points of view.

I had an S2 27 for years. I now have a 38-200. Costs on the 27 were well less than half. It was a great boat. The two boats have similar rigging layout and are both pretty well built (ericson a bit better IMO). I think the two big differences (after cost) are
1. The bigger boat can handle bigger seas better. Our 38 is perfectly comfortable in 6 foot seas. 27 was going to pound a bit.
2. Lots more room below.

Cockpits and and basic storage, if anything, the S2 was better believe it or not. My wife is much more willing to spend a couple of weeks at a time on the 38. Guests on the 38 are much easier.

Lee

Why are you limiting your options to a 27 or a 34? We thought carefully before buying our boat 8 years ago, and are pleased with our decision. We bought an E30+ which is large enough that we often cruise with two couples aboard for a week or more, have had five family members on the boat for a full week (was a bit crowded, but not bad at all) and as many as seven on board for a day sail. I can easily handle this boat on my own, and have sailed in winds up to 34 knots and 6 foot seas, which the boat handled very nicely.

So I'm suggesting that maybe the 27 is too small and the 34 too large for your plans and your budget (though only you will know for sure), and maybe something in between might be a good option for you.

Good luck in your decision!

Frank

Being our first boat i like the idea of costs being low, i know a 34 is not a 38 but less than half sounds great to me. My old lady doesnt mind the size of the interior. We wont be living on the boat full time so enough room for 2 of us to sleep, sit, eat is all we need right now. The 27, from what ive read handles bigger seas better than most its size, but im sure not as well as a much bigger boat. As you can tell im leaning towards the 27 today, tomorrow may be different

I am not only looking at 27 or 34. But 27 is as small as id feel comfortable going and 34 is as big as i want to go since 35 and up is when things like slips, permits, etc seem to get more expensive. So i was just trying to gauge the cost difference of my two extremes and assume something in the middle, size wise, would be money wise as well.

Ive looked at 28, 29 30, 32 in (god forbid!) other brands as well. I want shallow draft with no swing keel, prefer solid glass hull, from a more reputable builder, which from what ive seen eliminates many boats.

Also I was trying to avoid boats with the fiberglass inner liners, which i now see the 27 has and im guessing it is structural. Are the larger ericsons equipped with fiberglass inner liners as well?

Again thanks for the help guys.

Choices

tag-teaming on some other answers here already, I would also look at boats in between your boundary length numbers.
For instance, in our club sits a lovely Ericson 29. We are outside your geographic area and more's the pity.
The skipper passed away from a fast-moving cancer over a year ago, and his wife would Really like it to go to a good home/new owner. It's very clean and has a well-maintained A-4 engine that our local mechanic sez is one of the cleanest ones he's ever seen. Nice sail inventory, and the boat is clean inside.
Price on the club's bulletin board is $8.5K.
Note that the E-29 has more waterline length and all of the design advantages of the shorter more-prevelent E-27.

Moving up a bit, there are Ericson 30-2 and E-30+ models to chose from.

Another nice offshore capable one is the E-32-2, and there are lots of those on the used market, relatively speaking, because a Lot were built.

I could mention the E-31C, but it might be stretching your budget, and there are few showing up for sale.

So look around a bit, and we will all try to answer your questions as best we are able.

Regards,
Loren

ggec300 said:

Being our first boat i like the idea of costs being low, i know a 34 is not a 38 but less than half sounds great to me. My old lady doesnt mind the size of the interior. We wont be living on the boat full time so enough room for 2 of us to sleep, sit, eat is all we need right now. The 27, from what ive read handles bigger seas better than most its size, but im sure not as well as a much bigger boat. As you can tell im leaning towards the 27 today, tomorrow may be different

I am not only looking at 27 or 34. But 27 is as small as id feel comfortable going and 34 is as big as i want to go since 35 and up is when things like slips, permits, etc seem to get more expensive. So i was just trying to gauge the cost difference of my two extremes and assume something in the middle, size wise, would be money wise as well.

Ive looked at 28, 29 30, 32 in (god forbid!) other brands as well. I want shallow draft with no swing keel, prefer solid glass hull, from a more reputable builder, which from what ive seen eliminates many boats.

Also I was trying to avoid boats with the fiberglass inner liners, which i now see the 27 has and im guessing it is structural. Are the larger ericsons equipped with fiberglass inner liners as well?

Again thanks for the help guys.

Click to expand...

I tend to agree with your basic thinking to start smaller if it is your first boat. A solid 27-30 foot boat can be had for a much more reasonable price and is typically a bit easier to handle with short crew. I am not sure what makes you want to avoid fiberglass inner liner. I think the structural inner liner in Ericsons was a selling point. Makes for a very solid boat. Not the same as building the interior like say a modern Hunter and then inserting that into the hull

I think that length is only a small factor in the upkeep cost. The more toys on the boat the more the cost. For instance a refrigeration system will be roughly identical on a 27 or 35 foot boat, therefore any upkeep will be the same. The length is only a few dollars per foot more to park dockside. my marina is about 6 dollars a foot or $42 more for a 35 over a 27, however they also factor it by slip size and have them in 25, 30 and 35 foot lengths so a 27 would need a 30 foot slip and thus is only $30 cheaper a month. The line and sails and hardware are about 20-25% more. However, first most things are not replaced all that often and if well kept is not a big deal. What does hurt is leaving things go and needing to do a major job. A singe halyard is maybe $20 more, replacing the running rigging is hundreds more. Which brings up the second point, that that halyard can be made from a rope that is $2 a foot or $20 depending on what you need or want. If you only need good quality and take care of it, it will far offset buying "the best" and then ignoring it on a smaller boat. A final thought is that it is cheaper to start with the boat that will fill your ultimate need. Buying and outfitting several boats "learning" or "working up" to the goal boat is more costly in the end than learning on the boat you want down the road. If you want to go coastal cruising some day, dumping a bunch of money into a day sailor first will waste dollars that the next owner will get the benefit of, while you are refitting another boat. Decide where you see yourself a few years down the road, get the boat that you can learn and grow into, then when you and the boat are ready, you just go! Edd

ggec300 said:

Being our first boat i like the idea of costs being low, i know a 34 is not a 38 but less than half sounds great to me. My old lady doesnt mind the size of the interior. We wont be living on the boat full time so enough room for 2 of us to sleep, sit, eat is all we need right now. The 27, from what ive read handles bigger seas better than most its size, but im sure not as well as a much bigger boat. As you can tell im leaning towards the 27 today, tomorrow may be different

I am not only looking at 27 or 34. But 27 is as small as id feel comfortable going and 34 is as big as i want to go since 35 and up is when things like slips, permits, etc seem to get more expensive. So i was just trying to gauge the cost difference of my two extremes and assume something in the middle, size wise, would be money wise as well.

Ive looked at 28, 29 30, 32 in (god forbid!) other brands as well. I want shallow draft with no swing keel, prefer solid glass hull, from a more reputable builder, which from what ive seen eliminates many boats.

Also I was trying to avoid boats with the fiberglass inner liners, which i now see the 27 has and im guessing it is structural. Are the larger ericsons equipped with fiberglass inner liners as well?

Again thanks for the help guys.

Click to expand...

The 1970s Ericsons with one piece headliners, in your size range, include the 27, 29, 32-2, and 35-2. The only one I know of without one is the 31. I don't know about the larger 1970s Ericsons (39, 37, 46). I should mention that a couple of IOR Ericsons were started in the late 1970s, the 30+ and 34X. I don't know whether they had one piece headliners. By 1980 it was a practice that had fallen out of favor with the buying public. The last 35-2 (1980?) did not have it.

Costs and accomodations are important. However, don't overlook how much boat can you physically handle. Larger boats require more physical strength to raise halyards and winch sheets. Will your crew be able to do these things? Also, it's been my observation that the longer the waterline - the less it goes out. Not sure all the reasons why but this is observable after spend time in a marina. Good luck on your choice!

Size differences aside, the only reason that I could see for wanting a boat without a liner, is if you want to gut it back to the hull and start over. And then, a sailor will really have to be UP on their boats to make the choice of bulkhead placement, and internal strengths designated by the builder/designer. Huge job, for the extremely dedicated. They are out there, I know being one of them. But others? I can count them on one hand. The ones that start and give up? The list is staggering..

clp said:

Size differences aside, the only reason that I could see for wanting a boat without a liner, is if you want to gut it back to the hull and start over. And then, a sailor will really have to be UP on their boats to make the choice of bulkhead placement, and internal strengths designated by the builder/designer. Huge job, for the extremely dedicated. They are out there, I know being one of them. But others? I can count them on one hand. The ones that start and give up? The list is staggering..

Click to expand...

One piece overhead liners get in the way of cabintop/deck hardware replacement/rebedding. And, although many have remarked on their value as structural reinforcement, I am skeptical they add much beyond simply thickening the cabintop sides to facilitate portlight mounting. Primarily their role was cosmetic--a labor saving way to finish off an interior cabintop. Economically priced Ericsons (27, 29, 30-1, 32-2, 35-2) had them. Premium priced Ericsons (41, 31, the 1980s boats) didn't.

Interior types and reasons

PDX said:

One piece overhead liners get in the way of cabintop/deck hardware replacement/rebedding. And, although many have remarked on their value as structural reinforcement, I am skeptical they add much beyond simply thickening the cabintop sides to facilitate portlight mounting. Primarily their role was cosmetic--a labor saving way to finish off an interior cabintop. Economically priced Ericsons (27, 29, 30-1, 32-2, 35-2) had them. Premium priced Ericsons (41, 31, the 1980s boats) didn't.

Click to expand...

While I have opinions to offer, at discount prices, my own experience in "older interiors" is limited to owning an '81 Niagara 26 for a decade. Like the classic C&C's from that era it had a molded frp cabin liner. It was designed and built by former C&C co-founder George Hinterhoeller. Where that liner held the main bulkhead in place it was structural.

The rest of it's functionality was to save a huge bundle of labor cost$ by providing a totally finished interior, from overhead to sole. Well, partial sole - the center part was teak n holly, much like our Olson.
Remember that another of the features that indicate a higher-end boat were and are gear and systems, too. Look at the large winches and extensive electrical systems (for their era), and more complete pumping systems on those lines of boats.

Sidebar- I once helped prep some Hunters for a boat show in the 70's, and believe me, they were a whole lot less-equipped and poorer-built than boats like C&C and Ericson, just to name a couple.

So, if I were to guess at what led to the "stick-built" interiors in the 80's, I would guess that market had grown rich enough to justify the labor involved. i.e. their buyers came to want that feature after looking at the influx of European boats with built-out interiors and an increasing portion of buyers were willing to pay more to get it.

You might recall the interior finish plan that the trendier J-Boats and other higher performance lines like Express and Santa Cruise adopted. They would apply colored gel coat to the inside of the coring and then let the fasteners for the housetop and deck hardware all show, usually with flush ss nuts. Good way to punch holes in your skull when the boat rolls, but it looks "cool" and is easy to take care of.... (Yeah, at 6'2", most of those designs are dangerous to me...)

My .02 worth,

Loren

I have come to really appreciate the elaborate vinyl-with-zippers liner in my '85 boat. It is taut, soft, and insulated with foam. In good shape after all the years, and remains easy to clean.

The many zippers have so far provided easy access to almost all deck hardware. The liner can also be completely removed, when necessary, since it is stapled to furring strips, which are themselves hidden by teak installed with plugged screws.

Quite a clever solution, and installed by real craftsmen. I just had occasion to remove some of it, deep in the foot of the quarterberth, where I found every screw to be carefully plugged, and the fitting of shelves done with remarkably close tolerances.

I can only surmise that Ericson had project supervisors who demanded attention to detail that buyers were unlikely even to notice.

I bought a new Hunter 25 in the late '70s, which although a lot of new boat for the money at the time, was a masterpiece of sloppy construction and cheap components.

It had no liner at all, and stank of resin down below the whole time I owned it.

my two cents

I recently moved from a project Islander 26 to a project Ericson 32. Since almost everything service related is charged by the foot, slips, surveys, bottom paint, insurance, and haul outs will cost 30% more. Then, generally, there are more electronics, larger winches, larger sails, etc add some. In my case, my 200# mooring anchor needs to be upgraded.

In regards to projects, it's probably better to pay $20,000 for a boat the previous owner put $40,000 into restoration than to pay $1,500 and put $38,000 into it (as I am now learning). I'm currently up to $7K into a $1,500 boat.

Best Wishes,
Dean

Btw it looks like there's a nice E-29 in Baltimore on craigslist. As well as a 27 maybe.

be careful with cabin repairs

One more thought. Usually cabin projects are the result of water intrusion either through the deck, the hull, or condensation, and are a sign that there are larger problems than a damaged piece of plywood.

FWIW, if looking at 70s vintage Ericsons you should extend a few inches to include the E-35-2. There were hundreds of these made, >500, and only a few E-34Ts, <50.

Thanks guys a lot of good points and personal experience. Yes the liner issue for me is ease of access to inspect and maintain deck hardware on a regular basis. Also down the road maybe a remodel of the interior, haha which i say down the road because i realize its a huge project. I am a plumber, steamfitter, welder, hvac tech by trade and have a good bit of carpentry and electrical experience, as well as a friend with a full woodworking shop and over a decade of carpentry experience. So i feel up to most tasks of upgrading and maintaining a boat.

However i do see, and agree with, the merits of buying a boat that the previous owner spent all the time and money upgrading. Mostly the rigging, sails, windvanes/ autopilots, motors, winches, anchors etc. As most of that stuff is straight forward. I wouldnt mind going through myself and rebedding all the deck hardware myself and replacing the wood core material around them with solid glass. Just for my piece of mind, knowing it was done right.

And the interior is a much more personal thing. The way id like it laid out and set up may not be the same as the previous owner. I prefer a more open lay out where the bulkhead and bathroom dont completely close off the v-berth. A cloth curtain is enough for privacy with me if we have people onboard. I love the design of the head being aft on either side of the hatch with the galley being accross from it. Allowing the whole forward section the be open. But anyway this is last on my list of important features as the original layout isnt terrible.

Like i said before im not completely limiting my options, just trying to get an idea of the pros and cons of going smaller or larger. When im ready to buy, i will take my time and will buy the best boat which crosses off the most of my checklist regardless of size. If everything is new on a larger boat and will only need to be taken care of and replaced intermittently as we go then the cost will be spread out and of much less importance.

I do appreciate the help, it has been very helpful.