30+ weather helm?

Hello All!

I am a total newbie. My wife and I started sailing an O'day sailer 3 or 4 months ago and are having a great time with it. We have it on a 100 acre lake behind our house, so we have been able to sail at least once a week. Previously I have just had a few rides on larger sailboats.

We are very seriously considering the purchase of a nice clean E30+ shoal draft, and have advanced to the point of having gone on a test sail. We have very little prevoious keel boat experience, so am having difficulty judging the boat's performance.

It was a nice windy day with 10-15 knot winds. I would have thought ideal conditions for the boat. It sailed OK, but required considerable rudder to keep it tracking on a close reach. At times I totally ran out of helm, and we had to let out on the main sheet, and or round up. I was steering, and the owner with a buddy were trimminng the sails. Because of the dodger I did not have a clear view of what the sail was doing.

Quite possible we would have been better off reefing a notch. Could be that the crew had the main sail trimmed too tight, or both. Just not sure.

Is rudder effectivness an issue with the shoal draft 33+.

Regards to all, Skitch

That's just a sail trim issue.

May I ask why you've chosen a 30-foot cruising boat (forget Ericsons for a moment)?

Why not 23 feet? Why not 36 feet? Why not charter for a while? What's the intended use?

Imagining the intended use and getting a boat that fits is the challenge. Depends on age, children, level of fanaticism-- all of which evolves and changes yearly.

Oh yeah--welcome to the forum!

Skitch,

We have a 1984 E30+ with a delta fin keel (as compared with the shoal keel on the boat you sailed on by your report) and we have no trouble with either weather helm or lee helm or the rudder. In fact, when I have sails trimmed right and the wheel turned just slightly to windward I can apply the wheel brake and the boat will maintain that same course for quite a while without any intervention or adjustment, going 6 - 7 knots in 10 - 12 knot winds. I usually put in the first reef when wind is about 18 knots, and the second reef at 23 knots.

Although I haven't sailed on a shoal draft E30+, they are great boats!

Frank

Christian Williams said:

That's just a sail trim issue.

May I ask why you've chosen a 30-foot cruising boat (forget Ericsons for a moment)?

Why not 23 feet? Why not 36 feet? Why not charter for a while? What's the intended use?

Imagining the intended use and getting a boat that fits is the challenge. Depends on age, children, level of fanaticism-- all of which evolves and changes yearly.

Oh yeah--welcome to the forum!

Click to expand...

Less than 30 seems too small for sometimes two couples plus possible kids, and a shorter boat would travel slower. Also, I am 6' 6", so a 30' is really the minmum cabin size I think I could be comfortable in. A 36' to 40' would be nice, except for up front cost, plus additional slip fee, insurance, up keep, etc. I could see us moving up to a larger boat on down the road, but a 30 - 34 is probably the best choice for now.

Skitch said:

Less than 30 seems too small for sometimes two couples plus possible kids, and a shorter boat would travel slower. Also, I am 6' 6", so a 30' is really the minmum cabin size I think I could be comfortable in. A 36' to 40' would be nice, except for up front cost, plus additional slip fee, insurance, up keep, etc. I could see us moving up to a larger boat on down the road, but a 30 - 34 is probably the best choice for now.

Click to expand...

Being 6'2" myself I can empathize with your need for room to stand up...
You will find that a LOT of boats (even much larger boats...) were built with the idea that the compromise between cabin interior height and low windage for the outside should be about 6'4" headroom at the most.

We were delighted to find that our O-34 has enough room for my noggin, and not much more.
The Ericson's, by and large, had pretty good head room, but you might find some stooping is required anyway.

Bite my tongue for mentioning a non-Ericson, but having sailed a lot in a Yamaha 33, their line of larger sailboats (30, 33, 36) all have enough head room for you. And, sure enough, their profile looks a bit high compared to other similar-length boats. "Everything's a compromise" as a friend of mine tells me.

Speaking of Ericsons, you might want to seek out a look and a walk-through at an E-33RH. Quite a bit of headroom -- might be enough for you. I have sailed a lot on one of those over the last 20 years also.

Happy shopping,

Loren

Got it. The mere fact of my own size 13 feet makes smaller boats the wrong size. However, there is a tradeoff.

An ODay Daysailer is great fun to sail. So is a Rhodes 19 or a J24. Responsive, great teachers, in a breeze howling excitement. The larger the boat, the less its about pure sailing and the more about owning.

The world of cruising boats is engines and docks, electrical systems, wine racks, chartplotters, roller furling, repair lists, dinghies, outboard motors, and trying to serve guests watercress sandwiches while reefing singlehanded. I often miss small boats, and keep a sailing dinghy for the occasional fix.

Any Ericson is a good choice because they were designed at a time when boats were expected to sail pretty well on all points, without enormous sail areas to power enormous hulls full of furniture.

They all require quite a lot of maintenance and renewal, but because they were built well to begin with the effort and expense returns a reliable dividend.

Keep us posted. The forum is very good on helping judge individual specimens of Ericson as you investigate boats for sale.

(Posted simultaneously with Loren)

The 30+ has a big mainsail. With no reef in the main, when the wind starts getting into the 15 knot range it seems to me that it starts to get a little overpowered. I tend to leave a reef in the main most of the time and adjust the jib to balance. This suits me since I tend to single hand most of the time. If I had a couple of other people on the boat to help I might use the full main more.

Thank you all. I am pretty sure the crew had the mainsail trimmed too tight, and we would have been better off with it reefed a notch. Every time I sail I learn something.

If I get the 30+, I will be sure and post pics.

Frank,

I have reviewed most of your old posts from when you were at the same stage I am at presently, going forward. They have been helpful. Your boat is, and looks like the one I am looking at's sister.

- Skitch

Thanks, Skitch. Let us know if you have more questions.
Frank