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Ran out of fuel with 3/4 of tank full

sailorjdh

Member I
Motoring this summer in Puget Sound (after having primary engine mounted fuel filter but not the racor replaced) had my engine stop after 45 minutes to an hour. After tow back to the dock the servicing company returned to the boat changed out the racor and attempted to get the engine started to no avail and then checking for fuel in the line and seeing no fuel come in the line from the fuel pump with the key on and engine turning over "discovered that there was no fuel in the tank". Believing the gauge to be in error and in a rush I procured
5 gallons of diesel and poured this into the tank and shortly there after the engine with bleeding of the line started.
Turned out that there was actually 3/4 of a tank actually . Service company then said this must be related to some outflow problem from and within the tank that would cause the tanl to disperse only the first 1/4 of a tank and then stop when the tank got to 3/4 full. I have no understanding of how that could occur and am thinking that the service tech had just forget to open on the fuel line before attempting to start the engine the first time.... any ideas of what could be a problem with the tank? How it would only empty to 3/4 full then stop outflow?
 

supersailor

Contributing Partner
Fuel problems

Look at the fuel vent screen! I had this exact problem in the Agate Passage. After changing the filters and checking everything else possible, I disconnenected it and blew onto it finding it 100% plugged. It would cause so much vacuum in the tank that the fuel pump couldn't pump hard enough and it would not allow much fuel in the tank when you tried to fill it. A quick check of the other vents showed all almost plugged.

This is a good item to add to the spring check. :egrin:

Bob Morrison
E-34 Terra Nova
 

sailorjdh

Member I
thanks for the idea

Thanks for the idea I will look at this pronto
Look at the fuel vent screen! I had this exact problem in the Agate Passage. After changing the filters and checking everything else possible, I disconnenected it and blew onto it finding it 100% plugged. It would cause so much vacuum in the tank that the fuel pump couldn't pump hard enough and it would not allow much fuel in the tank when you tried to fill it. A quick check of the other vents showed all almost plugged.

This is a good item to add to the spring check. :egrin:

Bob Morrison
E-34 Terra Nova
 

tenders

Innocent Bystander
Another possibility: the fuel pickup tube in the tank, which is probably copper, can corrode through electrolysis or other means and either develop a hole or break off altogether. When that happens, the pump can pull a certain amount of fuel out of a full tank without issue, but then the tank is empty as far as the fuel pump is concerned.

Another way to test for the presence of a blocked fuel tank vent is to loosen the fuel fill cap. I find it hard to believe that with an hour or less of run time during which you might burn less than half a gallon of fuel, that the pump can physically draw enough vacuum on a relatively large tank to stop the flow of fuel. But starting with a nearly full tank...a marginal pump...who am I to say....
 

mherrcat

Contributing Partner
Another possibility: the fuel pickup tube in the tank, which is probably copper, can corrode through electrolysis or other means and either develop a hole or break off altogether.

I would also pull the pickup fitting on the tank to check the tube. When I replaced my fuel tank several years ago I discovered that the pickup tube in the original tank was made of some kind of plastic. The copper tube in the new tank was brazed (or soldered) to the fitting and I doubt will ever "break off." A plastic tube on the other hand...
 

mherrcat

Contributing Partner
I didn't even think of this before, but you didn't mention if the engine is gasoline or diesel. I have a Universal diesel engine and don't know if having a gasoline engine, probably Atomic 4 in your model boat, would make a difference. In my case the fuel pickup fitting is on the opposite end of the fuel line that connects to the input side of the Racor filter. The pickup tube is on the side of that fitting inside the tank. You will have to remove the fuel line from the fitting on the outside of the tank and unscrew the fitting from the tank. Then you can lift out the fitting and the tube should follow. At least that is how it is on my fuel tank. There is also a fuel return line and fitting on my tank, but I think that may only be applicable to diesel engines.
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
I didn't even think of this before, but you didn't mention if the engine is gasoline or diesel. I have a Universal diesel engine and don't know if having a gasoline engine, probably Atomic 4 in your model boat, would make a difference. In my case the fuel pickup fitting is on the opposite end of the fuel line that connects to the input side of the Racor filter. The pickup tube is on the side of that fitting inside the tank. You will have to remove the fuel line from the fitting on the outside of the tank and unscrew the fitting from the tank. Then you can lift out the fitting and the tube should follow. At least that is how it is on my fuel tank. There is also a fuel return line and fitting on my tank, but I think that may only be applicable to diesel engines.

The OP has an '88 E-38. Given the year and model, that would be a diesel engine.

I have heard of fuel tanks with dip tubes but have no idea if Ericson did it that way on that model. Some builders would also put a small screen on the inside of the tank at the fuel draw point, which over the years turned out to be a really bad idea.

Our '88 boat has the fuel outlet at the bottom of the tank on one end, with a shutoff valve installed there, and from there the supply line goes to the engine. No screen in our tank, either.

Hopefully some owners of sister ships can chime in with exact info on the fuel supply setup on that model.

Best,
Loren
 

tenders

Innocent Bystander
Well, he said he added 5 gallons of diesel, so I took this to mean he's got a diesel engine. Perhaps this was an invalid assumption, but if he added diesel to his Atomic Four fuel tank we're going to have to revise a lot of other assumptions too.

The fuel pickup tube is attached INSIDE the tank at the point at which the fuel line attaches to the OUTSIDE of the tank. That tube + pump suction = the means through which gravity is overcome, and the fuel inside the tank makes it into the fuel line despite the fact that the fuel line is attached to the top of the tank.

Home hot water tanks work the same way.

Is there another way of doing it? I'm pretty sure construction standards and basic common sense require the fuel line to be attached to the top of the tank.
 

mherrcat

Contributing Partner
The OP has an '88 E-38. Given the year and model, that would be a diesel engine.

Ooops. I was thinking about a post I replied to about removing the fuel tank from a '67 E30...
 

Stu Jackson

C34IA Secretary
In addition to removing the fuel pickup screen inside the tank, one of our skippers once reported that there was a clog at the inlet to his primary (Racor) filter at the filter housing inlet elbow. A rare situation, but thought it wise to report it to you.

FWIW, the engine mounted filter is usually called the secondary and the Racor is the primary.

You should also be aware that the plumbing from the tank to the engine should work like this (and feel free to read the rest of our Critical Upgrades pages, since there is a lot of engine-specific information that applies to a lot of engines on a lot of different boats)

http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,5078.msg32616.html#msg32616

Many of us use engine hours and fuel consumption to measure fuel tank levels rather than the gauges.

Good luck.
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
And on the heels of Stu's excellent commentary, I might add that "time" is another factor in many fuel-supply problems.
A few seasons ago we put in a new diesel tank (old tank was sound, but too small, so a new custom tank was built).

Around that time I was doing some trouble shooting of the fuel supply which resulted in replacing the orig. Racor, it having developed a microscopic air leak. As a part of the initial process, I removed the sections of the original fuel supply tubing, one at a time, and blew air through each one in search of any blockage.

During this effort, I found that even with the force of the dinghy pump, it was surprisingly difficult to get air from the engine area back to the fuel tank. Our mechanic/advisor told me that old copper lines were often like old arteries (jolly thought, that one...) that are partly clogged with deposits from decades of fuel leaving "varnish-like" gunk inside of them. The more I looked at the factory copper and saw how beat up it looked from being originally puled through parts of the boat, it was due and overdue for replacement/upgrading.

I ended up replacing all the supply and return tubing with new USCG-approved synthetic "hose" tubing. While the old nasty-looking copper line might have had a few more years in it, it seemed best to just start over. It was an excellent opportunity to reroute both lines away from the bilge areas and generally logical-ize (probably not a word) the whole routing scheme.

No problems since.
Only -minor- regret is that I did not find a way and a place to upgrade to a Racor 500 series filter.

Cheers,
Loren
 
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