1980 Ericson 30+

I'm looking at a 1980, 30+. A more modern look than I'd prefer, but still an Ericson. Has anyone led halyards and reefing lines back to the cockpit? How hard and costly is it? This one's a shallow draft. How tender are they? All other input greatly appreciated.

My 30+ already had all lines led aft. But to do it yourself would require about $800 or so of hardware plus your effort to mount two deck organizers and a couple of triple rope clutches. If you already have the base plate at the bottom of the mast with a bunch of holes in it to mount turning blocks it should be relatively easy, except for possibly under-deck access for backing plates for the deck organizers.

Don't know about the 1980 model, but my 1985 has more space under the traveler on the port side to run the lines than on the starboard side. I have a triple clutch on port and a double on starboard. I would like to replace the double with a triple and use the extra clutch for a spinnaker halyard.

Lines are led aft on our 1984 E30+ in the manner described by Mark in the above post. There is good access to our deck organizers on both sides from underneath by opening the headliner zipper inside the salon, the zipper that goes from side to side, just aft of the mast/entry to the head. We have lines on both the port and starboard side in triple rope clutches, and a winch on both sides on either side of the companionway entry for those lines (in addition to the winches in the cockpit for the jib sheets).

Getting the lines led aft is not a hard job--the mast can be lifted in a sling to install the plate under the mast to hold the various sheaves, two deck organizers, two triple rope clutches, a few fairleads on the deck to keep the lines straight, all bedded properly. A good day's work and a few hundred dollars...

We love our E30+, though ours has the deep keel. I haven't sailed on one with the shallow draft. In general, these are lovely boats that sail well and are well built.

Frank

Lines led aft

You're feedback's been very helpful, and raised some new questions. On this 1980,30+ there are wire halyards. Does that mean they'd need to be replaced before I can run lines aft? If so, would that involve changing the size of the pulley at the masthead? On a modification like this, could you relocate the winch on the mast to be used on the cabin top ? I'd also really like to add a spinnaker halyard,but there's no masthead block for that. Anybody know what type of set up I'd need for that? The potential of this boat seems to be calling to me!

Thanks again.

Art

Listening to the Call of your Boat...

GrampaArt said:

You're feedback's been very helpful, and raised some new questions. On this 1980,30+ there are wire halyards. Does that mean they'd need to be replaced before I can run lines aft? If so, would that involve changing the size of the pulley at the masthead? On a modification like this, could you relocate the winch on the mast to be used on the cabin top ? I'd also really like to add a spinnaker halyard,but there's no masthead block for that. Anybody know what type of set up I'd need for that? The potential of this boat seems to be calling to me!
Thanks again.
Art

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Your boat sounds like it was originally sold pretty much 'box stock'. After all these decades that's a good thing, as you'd otherwise be considering replacing out-of-date gear in any case...

Our '88 has the standard-Ericson-Kenyon spar, through stepped. Perhaps yours is similar.
There might be as ss plate around the cabin top mast opening to which you would shackle turning blocks. Then those lead the lines outward to some sheaves in a flat configuration and then aft through clutch stoppers to a housetop winch. Does your boat have any winches mounted on the mast now?

I will try to get some photos of our boat to post for comparison.

Our boat had old wire-to-rope halyards as well. We found some meathooks in them and replaced them with all-rope lines about a decade ago or more. There are some good threads here on how to accomplish this.
I would bet that your masthead has provision for a spinn. halyard block or even it might have slots and sheaves for port and starboard "wing halyards" like our spar.
Do you have some exits above the gooseneck area on the spar that are now unused?

Maybe best for you to attach some digital photos of your present cabin top, mast base, and the side of that spar. Use you telephoto feature and some enlarging/cropping to try and show the mast head.

Much of the house top work just calls for planning and thinking through the details well, and I believe that any patient amateur can do an excellent job. (The pro's can do the work in less time, but for $75 to $100/hour... Yikes.
And sometimes the "pro" you hire is only slightly better at it than the owner! And once in a while, is not as good.

Regards,
Loren

Inching along the learning curve...

Loren Beach said:

Your boat sounds like it was originally sold pretty much 'box stock'. After all these decades that's a good thing, as you'd otherwise be considering replacing out-of-date gear in any case...

Our '88 has the standard-Ericson-Kenyon spar, through stepped. Perhaps yours is similar.
There might be as ss plate around the cabin top mast opening to which you would shackle turning blocks. Then those lead the lines outward to some sheaves in a flat configuration and then aft through clutch stoppers to a housetop winch. Does your boat have any winches mounted on the mast now?

I will try to get some photos of our boat to post for comparison.

Our boat had old wire-to-rope halyards as well. We found some meathooks in them and replaced them with all-rope lines about a decade ago or more. There are some good threads here on how to accomplish this.
I would bet that your masthead has provision for a spinn. halyard block or even it might have slots and sheaves for port and starboard "wing halyards" like our spar.
Do you have some exits above the gooseneck area on the spar that are now unused?

Maybe best for you to attach some digital photos of your present cabin top, mast base, and the side of that spar. Use you telephoto feature and some enlarging/cropping to try and show the mast head.

Much of the house top work just calls for planning and thinking through the details well, and I believe that any patient amateur can do an excellent job. (The pro's can do the work in less time, but for $75 to $100/hour... Yikes.
And sometimes the "pro" you hire is only slightly better at it than the owner! And once in a while, is not as good.

Regards,
Loren

Click to expand...

This boat's got a deck stepped mast without the "sombrero" with holes for attachments. There is a #10 on starboard side of mast and two exit slots for halyards. On port;one #10,one empty winch pad and three exits.. The mast head has a crane facing aft that the backstay is attached to. I don't see (with binoculars) any access plates or accomodation for a spinnaker. The axle for halyard sheaves appears to go through the crane just aft of the mast. The offset companionway leaves very little space to starboard,although one owner did say he got two clutches in there. Is it feasible to remove one of the mast winches and use it for the new lines on cabin top? All your expertise is much appreciated.

Art

Don't know about moving the halyard winches...

If your halyards are original the rope part is probably twice its original size from years of accumulated salt, dirt and wear, as mine are. If you lead them aft you will probably want to add rope clutches. Rather than buy the larger size clutches I would replace the halyards with all-rope. You may be able to use the existing halyard sheaves if they are in good condition and can handle 3/8" line; if you want larger sheets you may need new sheaves. My rigger looked at mine and judged them good to take 3/8" lines.

Also, if you lead the halyards aft you may find them a little short in the cockpit since they were sized to be on the mast.

Since the 30+ is a fractional rig, there is a sheave box on the front of the mast where the forestay attaches. There are several sheaves in that box that can be used for other things like a spinnaker halyard.

mherrcat said:

Don't know about moving the halyard winches...If your halyards are original the rope part is probably twice its original size from years of accumulated salt, dirt and wear, as mine are. If you lead them aft you will probably want to add rope clutches. Rather than buy the larger size clutches I would replace the halyards with all-rope. You may be able to use the existing halyard sheaves if they are in good condition and can handle 3/8" line; if you want larger sheets you may need new sheaves. My rigger looked at mine and judged them good to take 3/8" lines. Also, if you lead the halyards aft you may find them a little short in the cockpit since they were sized to be on the mast.Since the 30+ is a fractional rig, there is a sheave box on the front of the mast where the forestay attaches. There are several sheaves in that box that can be used for other things like a spinnaker halyard.

Click to expand...

I would go with very low stretch 5/16 line for a boat of that size. Probably better fit the original sheaves, too.
There might be a sheave box where the forestay attaches as Mark noted. Port and Starboard "wing halyard" arrangement for flying sails like spinnakers. Might be an extra exit plate on each side of the mast lower down, too.

LB

Loren Beach said:

I would go with very low stretch 5/16 line for a boat of that size. Probably better fit the original sheaves, too.
There might be a sheave box where the forestay attaches as Mark noted. Port and Starboard "wing halyard" arrangement for flying sails like spinnakers. Might be an extra exit plate on each side of the mast lower down, too.

LB

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I think my Kenyon mast is the same. There are three sheaves at the forestay attachment and another sheave opening just above the top spreader (topping lift for pole?) I took these pics a few minutes ago through the binoculars in between sheets of rain and 40 knot gusts from Debby.

Spinnaker clarification

It's all coming clear(er)! You guys are great. Loren ,thanks for the pictures. I was picturing a mast head spinnaker. Am I correct that with the fractional rig you don't do that? So, the spinnaker halyard exits either spot beside the forestay? So, on one tack it will be laying over the forestay? Maybe no issue if it's eased a bit?

This is ALMOST as much fun as sailing!

Thanks again,

Art

GrampaArt said:

It's all coming clear(er)! You guys are great. Loren ,thanks for the pictures. I was picturing a mast head spinnaker. Am I correct that with the fractional rig you don't do that? So, the spinnaker halyard exits either spot beside the forestay? So, on one tack it will be laying over the forestay? Maybe no issue if it's eased a bit?

This is ALMOST as much fun as sailing!

Thanks again,

Art

Click to expand...

Not my pictures! But helpful ones for sure.
Notice the shiny SS bars welded into a sort of anti-chafe "cage" outside of but lined up with the sheaves? I have a very similar construct for that fitting on our masthead rig.

When we had the spar down in '02 for a re-rig, the cage was removed and polished to a high shine. Yeah, you can get a halyard laying over it after a jibe, but it seems to have no bad effect on the take-down. We use very low stretch line, so that having the halyard chafe against the ss does not seem to be an issue.
If I were racing the long down-wind race to Hawaii, I would want to drop the chute every so often and check the halyard for wear at the top - and everywhere else on it too. (!)

After all, even with a tiny bit of rubbing against the side of the exit for the block or anywhere on the spar could start to chafe a bit if sailing 24/7.

Loren

ps: Ericson owners are some of the most helpful folks I have ever seen.

The sheave box on my 30+ is different than the one pictured; the sheaves are vertical, not side-by-side. This has caused the line for the jib halyard, which exits the middle sheave, to block the lower sheave due to the addition of a block below the sheave box that gives the halyard a better lead to the roller furling foil when the jib is raised. You need this block if the halyard lines up too close to the forestay, which can cause the halyard to wrap on the foil, which may cause the wire halyard to deform and break. It is probably the same with all-rope halyards.

I thought about moving the jib halyard to the lower sheave, but it looks like the halyard would then be rubbing against the mast between the sheave and the block I mentioned. Hard to tell looking at it from the deck.