New to boating

We are new to this and are looking at a 1970 29. Should we have it surveyed? We don't know much about engines, but this one was rebuilt after the head gasket blew........sounds fine whe running but we don't know much. Any advice?Thanks.

Always have the boat hauled and surveyed. Later you will still find all kinds of stuff that will convince you the surveyor was blind, but at least the major stuff will be covered. You may also find a couple of items that you can negotiate the price down enough to cover the cost of the survey.

My 2 cents
Greg

Good surveys aren't cheap. On the other hand, you don't want to fall into the trap of buying a boat dirt cheap only to find that necessary repairs are way out of your budget. Then you could find yourself out of the purchase money, and stuck with a boat you can't afford to make safe.

As a starter, upload some pics--I'm sure a few of us wouldn't mind picking it apart Some of the more serious but less obvious problems are in places where the sun don't shine and nobody goes--so lots of bilge, engine compartment, lazarette, forepeak, undersides of chainplates, rudder post, thru-hulls, etc. Wiring--people always do stupid tricks with wiring. Anything that is rusty or has white powdery corrosion on it. Tanks.

After our pot shots, you might decide to run away before paying for a survey. Or maybe you'll gain the confidence to get a good survey.

Where are you? Maybe some of us can recommend a good surveyor--many are crap. I have a copy of the one my previous owner relied on, and that dude was truly blind.

In the NW, to moor a boat, sail or power, these days you have to have insurance. Insurers normally require a survey to assess their risk before they will issue a policy.
So you might as well start out with a good survey.
That's after you have done as much pre-purchase inspection as you can reasonably do on your own.

We have never had to turn down a potential purchase based on a survey, but some friends of ours did. They were out the cost of the survey, but they felt that it had revealed too many problems that they did not want to address.

Note B: a good surveyor will want you to observe them, give you commentary and info as they do their work, and will provide a document that will not only assess the condition of the boat but will map out the repairs/upgrades needed in the near future.

Note C: I would contact several potential insurers that you have in mind and just ask them what they need to see and know before writting you a policy. Sometimes getting an objective opinion really helps you focus.

Sidebar: true story that may or may not be of any help: When we were buying our prior boat from a seller up in BC Canada, we needed to find a local surveyor we could trust. We live in Portland, OR, had no clue on who to rely on.
After some thought, I called three of the larger banks in Vancouver BC, and spoke to their loan officer(s). I asked who they would trust to survey a boat before they would risk their bank's money on a potential loan.
After a chuckle or two they each gave me a short list and I picked an excellent guy that overlapped a couple of lists! They all said that they liked my logic.


Best of luck,
Loren

Great points, Loren!

Some insurers will insure up to a maximum limit without a survey. State Farm is one of those.

Edit: I think they'll insure up to $25k without asking any questions. I'm sure they'll ask a few when it's time to pay out, though.

Yes, one can usually get a rider on a homeowner policy without a survey - just liability to satisfy marina requirements. I'm not sure why they worry about the value of the boat in that case - they ought to be concerned about the value of the boats moored around it!

toddster said:

Yes, one can usually get a rider on a homeowner policy without a survey - just liability to satisfy marina requirements. I'm not sure why they worry about the value of the boat in that case - they ought to be concerned about the value of the boats moored around it!

Click to expand...

State Farm will do full coverage up to $25k without a survey. I think the deductible is $250 or $500. It's boatowner's coverage, not a homeowner's rider.

toddster said:

Yes, one can usually get a rider on a homeowner policy without a survey - just liability to satisfy marina requirements. I'm not sure why they worry about the value of the boat in that case - they ought to be concerned about the value of the boats moored around it!

Click to expand...

Understood. Matter of fact we have some boats in our moorage that have a marine policy with no replacement value feature. But be aware that the insurer is going to be leary about insuring anything having to do with a vessel with "no value."
:0

Beyond the value of the boat just be sure that the policy liability covers "pollution abatement and wreck removal". That's a key feature, and often adding an inexpensive boat onto a household policy often will not incorporate these specific marine-related coverages.

The thing is, even if a relatively small boat sinks with a six gallon can of gas aboard that seeps out and makes a sheen all over the pllace, the local LEO's and the USCG will have to bring in the cleanup pro's with their tug, a lot of oil booms, and a bill that can run about 10K a day.

So, be as economical as possible, but also be sure you are covered for the spendy liability stuff.
:nerd:

Loren

Good point. I just had my agent call the marina to check on their insurance requirements, and they came back with a quote that was about the same as my motorcycle insurance. I got a quote from 'US Boat" that was about ten times as much, not counting the costs of the survey that they wanted. But what would have happened when the survey came back with a laundry list of major projects? Would they have refused coverage, making the whole exercise futile?
Everyones situation is unique though. The original post was a bit vague in that the value of the boat wasn't mentioned. I'd argue against spending $1k or more on a survey of a $5k project boat, for example, but maybe not on a $25K boat that you expect to be in sail-away condition.
Speaking of examples, mine is definitely in the project boat category. And I happen to have pollution abatement and salvage capabilities within the family Another reason to keep it within my other coverages is that I have a $M umbrella policy that floats over all of the others. It doesn't cost very much, and is worth looking into if you have multiple coverages from a single carrier.

However, the CG isn't going to react to a wreck with 50 gal. or less of gasoline, unless they're really really really bored, or are mad at you for some other reason. Or unless you left a wreck that was obstructing navigation. The fact is, there would be no real environmental impact. Heck, we just had a 150 foot barge sunk in the river - outside of the channel - and nobody plans to do a thing about it.

The survey that was done on my boat called out a crack in two of the intermediate shroud swages and the ball valve (not a "seacock") through hull fittings. The insurance co. wanted both fixed prior to writing a policy. I argued out of the "seacocks" but they would only write a "non-navigation" policy until the shrouds were replaced.

I'm guessing that a 1970 29ft boat isn't going for a whole lot of money. IIRC, the survey on my 38 was about $600. Be careful of spending a lot of coin on a surveyor for a cheap boat. Its one thing if the insurance requires it, but check first. Even though I spent the money, the surveyor missed some major stuff. He also made a huge deal of other things that are not an issue and the bank and insurance then had to squabble about, etc. Here in RI, there is no regulation of surveyors. I know a few that will write the survey any way you want, if you pay them..... Shady deals. I would find someone that knows old boats, old Ericsons, even better, and have them look the boat over first before going any farther. I know for a fact that I could survey any E38 and do a better job than most pro surveyors. I've been through mine from one end to the other, few surveyors are going to know a particular boat that well. Then, if you think you should move forward, consider a survey.

RT

Try to find a checklist of items that should be surveyed. (try http://www.sailboatsurveys.com/survey-checklist.html and/or perhaps your insurance company will provide one). Then compare to your potential surveyor's checklist. There are probably lots of things you can do yourself (conditions of cushions, number of anchors, which lights are not working, flares out of date, ...). Focus the surveyor on items requiring a professional opinion, such as: structure (hull, deck, rigging); things that can sink you (throughhulls, stuffing box, cracked or badly secured hoses); complex safety items (propane, shore power).


PS: Marine surveyors (in general) do not know engines. Have a mechanic (who knows the engine make/mode) look at the engine - as you would a used car.

--Steve