Soft spot near tiller head

[gargrag]

Hi, dear Ericson community
our E25+ had a soft spot close to the tiller head, so I decided to embark on fixing the situation.
I made my way inside the bilge and found a problem worse than expected.

PO had used silicone WHYYYYY to seal the plate that's below the tiller head, and over years it leaked and rotted the core.

first question:
In order to properly clean and re-bed the plate, I would need to remove the tiller head, but I'm not sure whether that's what's holding the rudder or not. Any help here would be much appreciated See picture:




I removed all the rotten core, and I'm thinking of two options:

1 - replacing the core with plywood and make another epoxy/fiberglass/plywood sandwich
2 - use thickened epoxy with fiberglass to fix it (it is not a big portion.

What do you think about going 100% thickened epoxy?

 

[gabriel]

I like your idea of filling (the cavity left by the rotten core) with epoxy better than plywood.

After sanding, I would follow up by adhering a plate of G 10 on top (but really bottom) to add stiffness.

G10 4 life.

 

[Alan Gomes]

Hi, dear Ericson community
our E25+ had a soft spot close to the tiller head, so I decided to embark on fixing the situation.
I made my way inside the bilge and found a problem worse than expected.

PO had used silicone WHYYYYY to seal the plate that's below the tiller head, and over years it leaked and rotted the core.

first question:
In order to properly clean and re-bed the plate, I would need to remove the tiller head, but I'm not sure whether that's what's holding the rudder or not. Any help here would be much appreciated See picture:
View attachment 41488
View attachment 41487


I removed all the rotten core, and I'm thinking of two options:

1 - replacing the core with plywood and make another epoxy/fiberglass/plywood sandwich
2 - use thickened epoxy with fiberglass to fix it (it is not a big portion.

What do you think about going 100% thickened epoxy?

To answer your first question:

Your rudder *might* be positively buoyant. I'm sure it was when it was new, but may or may not be now. So the best thing to do would be to loop a safety line underneath the rudder, with each end tied off to your stern cleats. That would ensure that the rudder cannot drop out the bottom of the boat. There's a good chance it wouldn't anyway, but it will only take a fee minutes to rig such a line and it would be good insurance.

 

[gargrag]

I like your idea of filling (the cavity left by the rotten core) with epoxy better than plywood.

After sanding, I would follow up by adhering a plate of G 10 on top (but really bottom) to add stiffness.

G10 4 life.

Excuse my Ignorance @gabriel , what's G10 ? I plan to use epoxy thickened with silica and a thick fiberglass cloth, that I have from a boat built time ago

Any thint about how to remove that tiller head/cap would be much appreciated

 

[gargrag]

To answer your first question:

Your rudder *might* be positively buoyant. I'm sure it was when it was new, but may or may not be now. So the best thing to do would be to loop a safety line underneath the rudder, with each end tied off to your stern cleats. That would ensure that the rudder cannot drop out the bottom of the boat. There's a good chance it wouldn't anyway, but it will only take a fee minutes to rig such a line and it would be good insurance.

Hi @Alan Gomes much appreciated!
Do you think I can manage to put that line without going in the water? what kind of knot, or how would you approach this task?

 

[Alan Gomes]

Hi @Alan Gomes much appreciated!
Do you think I can manage to put that line without going in the water? what kind of knot, or how would you approach this task?

Sure you can! Is your boat in a slip? Let's say you are tied up to the slip with the finger on the port side of the boat. Tie off a line to your starboard stern cleat. Standing in the stern of the boat, drop it over the stern and let it sink below the level of your rudder. Walk the line over to the port side of the boat and, keeping slack in the line, tie it to the port cleat. Get off the boat and on to the dock, where I'm assuming you can just reach over and untie the line on your port stern cleat. From the dock you should easily be able to position it so it is directly underneath your rudder. With the line tensioned against the bottom of your rudder, re-tie it to your port stern cleat. (Again, I'm working on the assumption that you can reach your port stern cleat standing on the dock, in this example.) I hope this description makes sense. (It's more difficult to describe than it is to do.)

I've done this on my E26-2, by the way, which is the identical hull and rudder to what you've got.

 

[Loren Beach]

G10 laminate is made in many thicknesses and even shapes. I buy it locally from a plastics supply house and also from McMaster Carr.
A wonderful source of materials of all kinds: https://www.mcmaster.com

McMaster-Carr

McMaster-Carr is the complete source for your plant with over 595,000 products. 98% of products ordered ship from stock and deliver same or next day.

www.mcmaster.com

They also call it "garolite'. You can easily bond to it with epoxy, I have used West Systems epoxy -usually thickened - for many years, many repairs, and many upgrades.

 

[gargrag]

Sure you can! Is your boat in a slip? Let's say you are tied up to the slip with the finger on the port side of the boat. Tie off a line to your starboard stern cleat. Standing in the stern of the boat, drop it over the stern and let it sink below the level of your rudder. Walk the line over to the port side of the boat and, keeping slack in the line, tie it to the port cleat. Get off the boat and on to the dock, where I'm assuming you can just reach over and untie the line on your port stern cleat. From the dock you should easily be able to position it so it is directly underneath your rudder. With the line tensioned against the bottom of your rudder, re-tie it to your port stern cleat. (Again, I'm working on the assumption that you can reach your port stern cleat standing on the dock, in this example.) I hope this description makes sense. (It's more difficult to describe than it is to do.)

I've done this on my E26-2, by the way, which is the identical hull and rudder to what you've got.

Ha, I was overcomplicating the whole thing.
I do have a slip with fingers to port and star, so I'm very well equipped for this.

I really appreciate you sharing all this experience. I will give it a shot tomorrow, and post some pics. THANKS!

 

[gargrag]

Thanks @Alan Gomes and @Loren Beach
I was able to secure my rudder, remove that cap, and find the mystery

So, in case this helps anybody else here in this forum, The full cockpit is not the original one, at some point in the history of this amazing sturdy sailboat, they replaced it, and when they did, the hole for the tiller, did not fit perfectly, and instead of investing the time of doing it properly, the did it poorly. and then, years after, someone spotted the leak , and pushed in a cartridge of silicone, which we know, it doesn't stick to fiberglass due to the oils.

Luckily we were able to clean up all the mess, will properly fill all the void with thickened epoxy, reinforce with fiberglass, and repair all the cracks that that soft spot generated.

Thanks!!!