Jib sheet handling during singlehanded tacks in high winds

[N.A.]

First, I like this new (sub) forum; thanks to whomever thought it up!

Second:
How do you prevent jib-sheet fouling during singlehanded tacks in 30-35 kt winds?
--> This really is a high-wind question; please respond with what you know works in 28+ kts, give or take... the flogging of the sheets up there is quite different than in 25 kts or less.

I would definitely appreciate advice -- I am very comfortable singlehanding in 25kts and less (common on SF Bay). However, yesterday I went out in 28 sustained where I was, gusting to 30-35. (I know... why? Because, aside from the fact that it was a beautiful day, as one of @Christian's youtube videos says, 'practice') Said practice was very useful in revealing deficiencies of gear and training; many things (e.g. time for newer foulies) I can figure out for myself, but one I would like advice on: jib sheet fouling.

Details (if you want to read this much):

Given the high winds, I initially tried to roll out only 2/3 of my jib, while motoring upwind enough to maintain steerage. This went badly -- first, I needed to unroll the jib fully so I could tighten the halyard (on the advice of my sailmaker, I ease it before furling to reduce sail stretching), then I needed to partially re-furl.

But by then the flogging sheets, which often tangle a little bit, were a hopeless massive (literally) knot. Worse, it was frankly dangerous on the foredeck due to the flogging sheets (hence 'flogging'...) plus heavy knot -- well beyond my usual tactic of standing back and flicking a few wraps over one sheet. The only thing I could figure out to do was to go back to the cockpit and fully re-furl the jib, then go forward again to sort it out.

Then, kneeling on the foredeck with lots of water over me all the time (c.f.: need for new foulies), I confronted the knot -- large, with two ends to the jib clew, two to the sheet fairleads.. which is to say, highly confusing. Worse, it was tight. Very tight... luckily I had my marlin spike on me, but even with that it was 10-15 minutes to get the sheets sorted. I then fell off to a broad reach and unfurled only then, when one sheet would be mostly under load during the whole process and thus less likely to flog/foul.

That procedure worked... but nothing about all this was reassuring -- if conditions had been bad, I am not sure what I would have done. Wouldn't have taken too much wave height (or a lee shore) to make my solution of turning onto a different heading potentially undesirable. And I do not want to find myself having to be on the foredeck for long periods in bad conditions. So:

--> How do you normally handle this (singlehanded)?
a. during initial unfurling (or maybe sail changes?)
b. (especially) during tacks in high (25+ kt) winds?

Re: (b), tacks, in 25kts: I usually put multiple winch turns on the lazy sheet and pull it in tight before the tack, to reduce the problem... but, especially with higher winds, easing the working sheet during the tack is hard whilst also steering through the tack with one hand to keep the tack slow enough that I can pull in the new working sheet -- I prefer to get head to wind quickly, then go very slow from there, to give me time to just pull, rather than later difficultly grind, in the new working sheet. So I usually pull the wraps off the leeward winch with one hand just as the jib starts to luff, then shift hands on the wheel and use the other hand to pull in the new working sheet as I get through the wind. But that involves enough slack in the sheets -- especially the formerly-working sheet which I am completely releasing* -- that I have often gotten minor tangles. It is those appear able to go from a minor annoyance to a serious problem with higher wind.

I'm pretty sure there is a known way of dealing with this, but I am not aware of it. Rather than try to invent one, I though I would solicit your advice.

Many thanks for any tips!

PS:
* Well, one turn on the winch to provide friction to keep it near me, but that is not enough to control it, or even hold it in that kind of wind, and 2-3 wraps leads in my experience to overrides that are also highly concerning.

PPS: I had less tangling issues with my old sheets, which were 5/8" (came with the boat when I bought it). My new ones are 1/2" ("sta-set") -- spec for the boat, so why use bigger? -- but those foul more (due to worse flogging) and also slip more easily on the winch barrel and stick poorly in the self-tailers (I had the boatyard look at those; they could not find anything wrong with the springs/etc in the self-tailers). Maybe I need to go back to 5/8" sheets?

PPPS: You could tell the unusually high wind was a general problem -- CH 16 revealed a very busy USCG all day.

 

[Christian Williams]

In high winds I would not unfurl the whole genoa, no matter the luff tension. And you're right, under such conditions the sheets become lethal weapons and I have black eyes to prove it. The answer is to unfurl partially.

This does come up, say if overcome by a squall with full genoa set. The sheet has to be slacked to furl it, and the result can be a daunting episode. Or if, as has happened to me, the roller furler control line comes uncleated, or breaks. Sheets can run right out of the fairleads and stream off in to the sea, making a mess that will certainly do until the real mess gets there. The answer is two pills, anticipation and prevention.

I didn't quite understand about the knot issues, are there bowlines on the sheets?

You already keep light tension on the lazy genoa sheets, especially before making a tack, and to my mind this is the answer to sheet fouls when tacking. I prepare what is to be the new sheet with one turn on the winch, for fast hand-hauling. I delay the release of the active sheet until the last minute, then flip the turns off the winch from ten feet away. I have learned to pay attention to the details of the procedure, even though it is easy to take tacking for granted. As you know, it is inconvenient for a singlehander, or shorthander, to have to go forward to clear fouls. With a crew, no big deal.

I think this is the video N.A. referred to:

 

[N.A.]

Many thanks, Christian!

I had forgotten which video it was, so the link is helpful; just re-watched (had been year(s) I think).

If they key is tension on the lazy sheet, which I already do when tacking, maybe there's not much more I can do. Still:

--> Definitely interested if any additional thoughts folks have (including how the sequence operrations or anything else).
I may try leaving two turns instead of one on the "old" (soon to be unloaded) sheet to help control how much of that line runs out while the sheets flog during the last bit of the tack.

--> As I unfurled my (90%) jib, I used the winch on the furling-line side to help me control the furling line, which otherwise would pull out of my hands... but that left the sheet on that side uncontrolled. Maybe I should have just cleated the sheet to something to reduce the amount of line that could run out... does anyone else run into this issue, and if so how do you handle it? Or maybe I should figure out some other way to belay the furling line? It has a clutch on it, but no dedicated winch.

Thanks again for all thoughts -- really appreciated.


PS: In response to your (Christian's) other comments:

For high wind I think in the future I will fix halyard tension at the dock as you imply, and not try to do it on the water. I did not have a genoa on though:

Jib: I had a 90% jib on; I only use my 135% genoa in the (typically much lower wind) winter up here. The 90% wasn't crazy even all the way out in terms of temporary flogging, though I sailed with it maybe 30-40% rolled once I got everything sorted -- at 100% out the boat would have been quite overpowered. I had no main up; had planned two reefs, but after the jib debacle I decided to sail the rest of the day on jib alone. (When the wind dropped a bit, to ~ 25, I rolled it fully out which got me not far from hullspeed).

In case it's useful to anyone else: The main problem with not using any main (jib alone) seemed to be difficulty tacking; the jib would depower as I came into the wind, but even starting with 6+ kts of way on, with the wind so high (and maybe the waves) I sometimes lost forward momentum before I got the bow through the wind, and the tack failed. I have not run into that problem with the main up.

Knot: the details are largely irrelevant, and I probably should have omitted them -- it was just a huge, tight, tangle. But yes, I have bowlines at the clew. However the snarl was at least 10 feet back from the clew, so I had 4 lines emanating from the snarl, the two going forward to the clew and the two going aft to the fairleads, with no clarity as to which needed to be worked on first to untangle things. Also, that big heavy knot appeared lethal as it flogged about above the foredeck at the end of the jib + 10' of line. The sheets alone looked scary enough.

 

[Christian Williams]

For the roller-furling control line, l find this cleat works well. It allows set and release with one hand.



I don't find it necessary to use a winch on the furler line. I have been able to furl a 120 percent genoa from full to half its area in 30 knots by putting my back into it. If the furler mechanism is working OK, that should be possible for people even of reduced physical strength (meaning me). You sorta have to believe, and pull the beast in in small increments. It gets easier with every foot of control line.

I use a continuous half-inch genoa jib sheet on the 38, attached with a lark's head knot at the clew. Less bulk than bowlines for going around the shrouds when tacking. Works best if you don't plan to change sheets much, or headsails.

 

[jtsai]

I have a Harken Hexaratchet block for the furling line turning block. It helps when gripping on a loaded furling line, like having a ratchet assisting, pretty ingenious design. Switch on the side to engage or disengage the ratchet mechanism.

Is it necessary to unfurl the entire jib to tighten the halyard? Sounds like that was what got you in trouble with tangled jib sheets.

SF Bay is an exciting place to sail. Looking forward to reading what others have to say.

 

[G Kiba]

First off. I try not to go out in those conditions. Just not very fun. It sounds like you have been sailing the slot this summer. Winds have been high throughout the Bay Area this year. Seems that the exceptions are becoming the new normal (as we were warned).

As far as tacking in high winds singlehanded, I have a tiller and can have both hands free if I steer with my knees. Really makes a difference! Under the load of high winds, you will need at least 3 wraps around the winch if not more. Preparing for the tack, I steer with my legs, uncleat and hold the sheet to be released in one hand. In the other, I pull out any slack on new working sheet. I steering the tack as slowly as can, release the new lazy sheet and pull the new working sheet hand-over-hand like hoisting a spinnaker. Then winch to trim. At the same time, (with my 3rd hand) I will give the new lazy sheet a tug to remove any slack. I believe this is your knot. Slack in the lazy sheet with wrap around the working sheet and knot if you are not paying attention to it. As far as the main sail, I will have a double reef in. I prefer the ability of pointing high. High enough to feather wind off the jib. Other than that, if I am caught in those conditions on the bay (specifically the slot), I sail downwind and make a right to duck behind TI toward Alameda/Oakland or I jibe and turn right into the wind shadow behind Angle Island. These are known downwind respites and places to reef if you didn't do it earlier.

Also, My boat did come with a 60% jib that I used a few times just to see how it performed! What a joy to tack!

 

[Nick J]

For the roller-furling control line, l find this cleat works well. It allows set and release with one hand.

I don't find it necessary to use a winch on the furler line. I have been able to furl a 120 percent genoa from full to half its area in 30 knots by putting my back into it.

I use a harken ratcheting block, but mine doesn't have the cam attached, this does look like an improvement over my setup. One item I've wondered about is the size of the furling drum. On the 35 (and I'm assuming 34) the furler is between sizes. If you size by boat and sail area, you should go with a larger furler (Harken Unit 2) but if you size on headstay diameter, you should go with the smaller unit (Unit 1). When I asked a local rigger about this, they recommended going with the larger unit and making the necessary changes to the rig to accommodate a larger diameter stay, but I've always heard not to oversize standing rigging.

Last time I was out in heavy weather (25 sustained with 30+ gusts), I had a very difficult time furling in my headsail to reef and had to use one of the cabin top winches to assist. I have an older ProFurl, so it may be more of an issue with the unit rather than the size. Just wondering what size furlers others have gone with when they're boat falls between sizes.

Great post @N.A., I'm excited to see what others have to say.

 

[Christian Williams]

I had not considered drum size (radius) in ease of furling. Mine is a Harken Mark I, and it's pretty big. (The sticker says Mark III because that's what Harken sent it to me when I asked for a replacement decal).

 

[G Kiba]

I would not winch a furler line. If you have the room, better to turn downwind and shadow the jib with the main to roll it up. Much easier on the furler, blocks line, and crew.

 

[HerbertFriedman]

Turning downwind to blanket the jib with the main is what always do to prevent excessive flogging of the jib. There is always the dangerous issue of an accidental jibe when doing this because you are not paying close attention. To prevent injury during this maneuver, I always sheet int he main and let out the traveller to blanket the jib.

 

[Nick J]

Agreed, but in heavy air with our boats that sail well with headsail only, I'm often trying to reef the headsail without the main hoisted. Even with luffing the headsail, my furling line is too much to handle without the aid of a winch in heavy air. Once the first few feet are furled in, it gets easier and you can use the drum to just add friction instead of using the handle to actually winch in the line. On light air days (under 15 knots) the furler is relatively easy to operate.

On the drum size, I did a quick sanity check (should have done this first):

Schaefer 2100 uses 9/16 wire, 1/2 pin, and 3 1/2" drum
Schaefer 3100 5/16 wire, 5/8" pin, and 4 3/8" drum
Harken Unit 1 9/16 wire, 1/2" pin, and 3 1/16 drum
Harken Unit 2 5/16 wire, 5/8" pin, and 3 13/16 drum
(current set up) Profurl C32 5/16 wire, 1/2" pin, and 5 1/2" drum!

I guess drum diameter isn't everything.

 

[N.A.]

Wow; all these comments are a goldmine of ideas -- many thanks!

Additional thoughts:

Tacking:

- @G Kiba : Yes! This definitely happens to me (less last time, when the issue involved furling too, but certainly at other times when just tacking):

At the same time, (with my 3rd hand) I will give the new lazy sheet a tug to remove any slack. I believe this is your knot. Slack in the lazy sheet with wrap around the working sheet and knot if you are not paying attention to it.

--> What do people do about the "3rd hand" problem? Especially those of us with a wheel. Mine is big, so hard to run circles around it... I tack standing behind the wheel, and then head to the new working sheet to add turns/grind... but that leaves no 3rd hand (and too far a reach even for a 2nd hand) for the new lazy sheet. Basically, I have to fully abandon the lazy sheet before I really start dealing with the new working one... but I am hoping for tricks from you all : )
PS: I am considering leaving 2 wraps on the soon-to-be lazy sheet winch in hopes the extra friction will keep it from pulling out so fast and tangling up. Any other suggestions very welcome.

Furling:

(This is of interest to me for sure, but I don't want the tacking suggestions to get lost in the furler discussion; hence the two headings.)

- Maybe the ratchet blocks are what I need to control the line while unfurling... and probably cheaper to try than most other solutions : ) Thanks, @jtsai .

- @Nick J : FWIW my furling line runs through a clutch (which is oddly placed an the back of a genoa track). That has the advantage that when furling, the flogging does not pull the line out of my hands -- the clutch stops that, and only allows motion in my pulling direction. Otherwise I would definitely always use the winch just to control the thing even if not grinding (though I do also grind to start in higher wind).

- @HerbertFriedman -- thanks; your suggestion is very helpful (and has just been added to my "sailing tips" document : ) I usually sail on a deep-ish broad reach rather than dead down when doing that, just to avoid that accidental jibe worry without all the grinding in of the main. I understand that reduces the blanketing of the jib, so in higher wind I'll try your trick. though until I try it I am unsure my E34 (short, cabintop) traveler really gives enough travel to allow me to bring in the main enough to really reduce hazard though.

- I usually furl on the way home purposefully downwind; it's not just that the main may blanket the jib, but even without the main up* the much lower apparent wind on that heading just makes everything easier.
In any case, I don't want to have to head downwind -- it may not always be desirable or safe to change course like that. And I start my day dead upwind through a narrow channel, and so am usually setting sail right off a (mud) lee shore... short of doing a lot more motoring to buy sea room, I need to set sail headed closer to the wind than a beam reach (I usually motor onto a close reach, set the jib, shut down the motor, set the main under sail).
* like Nick J, I often sail on jib alone when feeling like a more mellow day. Honestly it's mostly about the hassle of furling the main at the end; I have no Stackpack.

- Unsure if one must unfurl fully to tension the halyard -- does anyone know? I assume you must, since otherwise the wraps on the foil add a bunch of friction that would presumably make it hard to tension properly... that figuring is why I have been tensioning (and relaxing tension) while unfurled.

Responses to other comments:

- I have a "2017 Harken MKIV 1" roller furler, with a 90% jib on it in summer, 135% genoa in winter.
--> Per Nick J, this has one of the smaller drum diameters he listed and may be undersized... which maybe matches my experience: hard to furl in higher wind, though as @Christian Williams says, steady effort has always gotten it in... but often not with a reassuring "sure I could always do that in a 35+ kt emergency" sort of feeling about it. The winch helps get it started, but I agree there is risk to doing that.
For whatever reason, despite being a Mk I mine does not look like the photo Christian posted -- no stainless-steel cover on the drum; it has a plastic things and the line (narrow dia -- 8mm maybe? It's an odd size; hard on the hands when pulling) rolls into that, but larger dia. line probably won't fit in the drum. The boatyard said it seemed fine to them (I asked as while back when I had the boat in.)

- I almost always sail the slot / near Pt Blunt, not just this summer, but over many years -- I sail out of the East Bay, so almost everything eventually takes me into that region. The newer part for me is doing it singlehanded. Oddly (at least in my memory) the N end of Treasure Island, which I pass on my way almost anywhere, has this summer often been windier than Pt Blunt... seems like an indication of the new world order. Anyway, well familiar with the lee of Angel Island, which is where I go for lunch and to recover after getting my fill of the high wind. I actually often play the edge of the lee across the Berkeley Circle to stay in the windspeeds I enjoy, but... I have aspirations to doing more offshore, and so am purposefully practicing more often and longer in higher wind (and with the windvane, and etc etc.).

 

[Christian Williams]

When alone, I tack from behind the wheel. From behind the wheel I flip the old sheet off, then move left to haul in the new sheet.

If you can stand another video by me, here's my daughter polishing her tacking technique:

 

[HerbertFriedman]

Regarding the issue of sailing down wind and using the main to blanket the jib for furling the jib, I usually sheet in the jib tight as possible for this maneuver since the main is then more effective in blanketing the jib. Since I do this maneuver with the main sheeted in and the traveller let out fully, the main is not as effective in blanketing the jib as if the main were sheeted out. I too have an "87 E34 so I think the mechanics are similar to yours. But I rarely solo and the "admiral" has become quite proficient at this maneuver. Once while sailing solo, I used the autopilot to hold the bow downwind (but not dead downwind) while I furled the jib but, again, that was not in a high wind condition.

 

[Christian Williams]

Altering course just to furl a genoa is OK I guess, but it is not a technique good for an emergency. I'd think that headsail reduction is most often needed when close-hauled. If you can't pull it in, crank it for the first few feet. The idea of not using a winch is so we don't damage the mechanism, but a headsail should be able to be trimmed in any wind.

Good technique works for all conditions. Offshore in heavy air with big seas, it is not an attractive idea to bear off to furl a headsail. All reefing of headsail or mainsail can be done without altering course, and techniques developed to make it possible.

The luff tension thing--yes, UK sails also advises that the jib halyard be slacked a bit when not in use. But I rarely bother. If the roller genoa has no wrinkles in the luff it's probably fine, we're not trying to shape the sail with halyard tension.

I've found that there's a sweet spot, in which the furler works easily and the luff is still adequately tensioned.

Granted, furlers are fairly complex, have eccentricities, get old, and may require special treatment.

 

[ConchyDug]

On the note about furlers being difficult to operate. Check the furling line run, like all the blocks/sheaves in the system. A block that spins from the flick of a finger may react differently when loaded. Those torlon balls don't last forever.

 

[HerbertFriedman]

While I agree that furling a jib without altering course is preferred but I found in some instances quite difficult. For example, my furler line is on the port side of the boat. When sailing close hauled on a starboard tack, and with only one winch on the port side, I had no winch to crank in the jib. So I unwound the port jib sheet from the winch and then used the winch to furl in the jib but the excessive flogging of the jib completely fouled the sheets and everything went to hell in the proverbial handbasket. That is when I switched to the downwind technique. The moral of my story is to reef and furl early and often.

 

[G Kiba]

nd I start my day dead upwind through a narrow channel, and so am usually setting sail right off a (mud) lee shore... short of doing a lot more motoring to buy sea room, I need to set sail headed closer to the wind than a beam reach (I usually motor onto a close reach, set the jib, shut down the motor, set the main under sail).
* like Nick J, I often sail on jib alone when feeling like a more mellow day. Honestly it's mostly about the hassle of furling the main at the end; I have no Stackpack.

- Unsure if one must unfurl fully to tension the halyard -- does anyone know? I assume you must, since otherwise the wraps on the foil add a bunch of friction that would presumably make it hard to tension properly... that figuring is why I have been tensioning (and relaxing tension) while unfurled.

I would raise the main first and use both sails if you have to point high to get through a narrow channel. Maybe raise the main while in the slip prior to backing into the fairway if possible. As for the jib, I tension it while it is furled.

 

[windblown]

On occasion, I have furled the jib to tack, rather than risk a trip to the foredeck. It isn't pretty, but it works. Our furling line (Profurl) comes back to a cam cleat with a fairlead. Even with a heavy 155 Genoa, I have hauled it in without resorting to a winch. For a skipper who has seen more than three-score tours around the sun, it may take all I have to get it to start to furl, but, as noted, every pull is easier than the last. Now I know better than to leave the dock with that 155 in the furler, unless I have the right crew aboard.