Evening Sail Report (absent minded version).

[Loren Beach]

I took the boat out for an evening sail yesterday with a couple of sailing buddies. Wind was gusting to about 15 and the boat behaved perfectly. The 97% jib and full main had us fully powered up to 6 kts. (We should be faster, but the bottom slime has been building up and we are due for a scrub.)
Temp was in the 70's so it was about as perfect as it gets.
Still, as Roseanne Rosannadanna from SNL used to say, "It's always something!"

We were rail down on starboard tack and heard quite a crash inside... turned out I had made not one but errors in prepping to get under way. I had left the gimbal locked 'on' for the range AND.... left the little metal lock rotated to the 'off' position that holds the oven door shut. Oh my. All the trays, racks, and two fry pans were all over the cabin sole on the port side! And we were SO enjoying sailing at "full honk" to weather!

Muttering darkly, I restored order to the oven, all while still on starboard tack... it was dicy.

Then later as the sun was setting and we motored back to the slip I noticed water here n there on the sole pieces. Decidedly odd. Looked into the bilges and found about a half inch of water, throughout the bilges. Removed about a gallon total and dried all the bilge sections. No water appeared to be coming in anywhere. Really Odd.
It was after sunset, so I went home and returned this am. All hose clamps solid. Shaft area around the stuffing box was bone dry. Keel bolts not seeping.

Pondered some more, and some more yet. Hmmmmmm.... before going out with friends for a sail, I had opened the valves for the head, and no one had used it, and later closed both before locking up, back at the dock.

IIRC, the late George Carlin once said that since we always find lost things in the Last Place we look, we should look there First.
So today I visit and look everything over everywhere, and finally sat on the closed lid and ponder those two properly closed valves. Again. They both looked quite innocent, secure in performing faithfully.

Finally, I stand and lift up the lid. Oh My.
Darned bowl is (Still...) full of water. (!) What had happened was the near-new joker valve had slowly leaked back and the bowl top is below the outside water level when on Starb. tack. Not a very fast leak and no more water could enter after the valve was closed last night anyway.
Sheesh!

Until I learn to do better at boat plumbing management, it might be best to install a new Joker.

 

[Pete the Cat]

I never trust joker valves in choppy weather. Depending on how your head is plumbed, you can have a real powerful hydraulic push against it and if there is the slightest bit of crud on the lip you can work up quite a bit of water over time--but I am not sure that is your problem.. Also, the intake can have some hydraulic action on some boats and heads so that it will fill. Many (most?) production boats skip the vented loop on the head intake by having the top of the bowl at the waterline in their design. This, of course, will overflow when you are heeled over because the bowl lip is often right at the outside water level. If your boat does not have a raised vented intake (most do not) my guess is that the intake is the source of your overflow. Most head pumps have valves (not jokers) on the intake and most seem to fail at some point. I don't trust any of them and shut off the through hull valve when not using the head. FWIW.

 

[peaman]

Many (most?) production boats skip the vented loop on the head intake

How could a vented loop even work on a head intake? The vent lets air in to break a siphon condition, but the head pump puts the intake hose under suction to pull in sea water for flush. So a vented loop would have the flush pump sucking in air through the vent instead of sea water through the through hull? What am I missing?

 

[Christian Williams]

You can always close the head thruhull when not in use, which is what I do offshore (no vented loop. They're kinda ugly in a head compartment).

A vented loop fitting has a one-way valve at the top, a version of joker valve called a duckbill. Just rubber so can fail too after many years.

 

[Loren Beach]

I had not considered that water might be entering the bowl via the small intake line. The PH2 pump has (seemingly) an overengineerd valving system on the intake side. I have never had a vented loop in that part of the head system in 40 years, but this does sort of call for more research. Thanks guys!

 

[southofvictor]

Hey Loren while on the subject I have a question. What size and type of head intake hose do you have on your PH2? Do you have any trick to double clamping the intake hose at the pump? I installed a new 3/4” ID intake hose when I replaced my head hoses last month. I can’t get it to stop leaking. I used a Vetus Impermeable 3/4” ID sanitary hose. It went on pretty easily (maybe too easily) and I have a hard time double clamping it without the lower clamp trying to pull off the hose. PO only had one clamp - maybe that’s why? Pics of the old single clamped black hose and new double clamped white one below.

Sounds like you had a great sail despite the small mishaps!