Fuel Pump Problems

On our 89 E-34 with the Universal M25XP, we've had two fuel pump failures in a year. The original pump lasted for 13 years, 1100 hours on the engine. When it went south, it was replaced with a Walbro 2401-1 general purpose pump. This lasted 150 hours and blew its diaphram. It was replaced last summer with an identical pump which promptly blew its diaphram after 30 hours use. I had bought two last year and the spare was on board so I installed it. But I now have zero confidence in this pump and so I went to a marine diesel specialist who informed me that this pump became notorious for blowing diaphrams. He said that early production runs of this pump were quite reliable, but since 2004, you never know whether you'll get 5, 50 or 500 hours out of this pump!! Yikes. Naturally I'm going to get another pump and install it immediately. What suggestions can you make??

I have the standard set up with the Racor filter/separator between the pump and the tank. The pump is located below the level of the fuel filter and the filter (10 micron) is changed regularly, as is the engine spin on filter. When replacing the pumps, they were not turned on until the system was full of fuel - totally bled - so they did not run dry at all. On this latest install, when turned on, it did one burp only, the system was so 'full', and the engine instantly ran. But I have lost all confidence in this product.

The local Kubota dealer sells a 7lb pressure pump which is piston based rather than using a diaphram. It sell for $250 Canadian, whereas the Walbro sold for $95. Money is not the object here.

New Facet pump installed

We now have the new Facet fuel pump installed. This was the last part of the upgrade to new diesel supply and return lines and a new Racor. This is on our '88 model M25XP with about 1900 hours.
I was puzzled at first by the operation of the new series Facet, which makes more of a sort of buzzing noise rather that the variable clicking of the original one. I understand that this is due to the change in how the electrical part works and pumps.
It took several tries to get the system to bleed and stay running -- only surmise is that there might have been an air bubble in the new pump somewhere...
I bleed the system by powering up the engine panel (noisy damned buzzer!) and opening the built-in bleed valve by the injector pump to run the fuel through and back to the tank.

It seems to be fine now. Photos show the corroded old pump and rat's nest of wires by it. I found, after some pondering and diagraming, that the factory guys had brought the two wires from the engine harness across the back of our engine compartment to the lift pump and then just used both 3-way crimps and a couple of "trailer connector press-on splices" to add the hour meter and the halon extinguisher indicator to this circuit.

Now there is a terminal block for the several neg. and positive circuits, and it looks a bit more squared away.
Second photo is the view of the area with the new pump in place.
Cheers,
Loren in PDX

Check that your fuel return line is flowing freely :nerd:

Loren Beach said:

...
It took several tries to get the system to bleed and stay running -- only surmise is that there might have been an air bubble in the new pump somewhere... ...

Click to expand...

Loren, when it started running well did the pump noise change ?

No, and I could not hear a distinct change from when I closed the fuel bleed valve either.
The earlier mechanism had a fairly loud clicking noise that was faster when pumping fuel right on through when you bled the system, and then slowed or stopped when you closed the valve.

Having "tested" the new pump by running a (slow) stream of diesel from the output hose into a bottle yesterday, it obviously works...

I should also add that the engine ran for 20 minutes, part of that under load, and restarted quickly several times. It seems OK, but then I am not a mechanic.

Loren

Loren Beach said:

No, and I could not hear a distinct change from when I closed the fuel bleed valve either.
The earlier mechanism had a fairly loud clicking noise that was faster when pumping fuel right on through when you bled the system, and then slowed or stopped when you closed the valve.
...
Loren

Click to expand...

That's interesting. I've gotten used to listening to the old style pump click rate to indicate proper priming...

fuel pump

I too just replaced by Faucet pump and like Loren was surprised at the low noise emmited. In fact from the cockpit and can not hear the new pump when the key is turned. Never having primed a diesel before was a learning experience. I took digitals of the engine compartment and went to the supplier where I purchased the pump asking them what procedures to follow. From three people in the store I got three different opinions, I'm sure they were all correct since they certainly had more experience then me. When the customers left, I asked the clerk to explain one more time, slowly.

Relieing on the faucet pump to do all the priming seemed to be taking abit more time than I expected, so I primed the racor by hand, that seemed to do the trick, finally fuel was coming through. I let the engine idle for an hour at the dock before I had confidence to take out and go sailing. This weedend proved the test, all worked fine at varying RPMs.

Don Taugher
E38-200 Running Free

Newer Fuel Pumps

From reviewing the Spec Sheets it looks like the newer fuel pumps
electronically vary flow based on pressure feedback. The older style pumps
did not have this feature and pumped full flow constantly.
This would account for the change in noise levels
My old Facett pump was annoying and I do not miss the noise. The Beta 902
uses a mechanical pump on the engine. I only use the electrical pump for
bleeding air after filter change and fuel transfer.

Happy Fueling

Facet pumps

The original Facet pump on my M-25XP has worked extremely well for 20 seasons, which would make replacing with a Facet pump a no brainer. The reports by Loren and Don, though, give rise to concern.

Has anyone had experience bleeding an engine after the original pump installation bleeding? Does it have enough suction to fill the empty filters?

What model pump did you purchase? Where did you find it? Auto parts store? Marine dealer?

Facet trivia

http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/showthread.php?t=3585&referrerid=28

This related thread has some fuel pump commentary, and I can now add to that.
I did order the new Facet from http://www.feathermanenterprises.com/

$85. plus $7.40 s/h. This was better than the indifferent reception I got at the local Universal Westerbeke dealer where it was to be $211.60 and the guy would/could not even tell me anything about the pump he was purporting to sell. Not even a look-see.

OTOH, John Featherman is easy to talk to and seems to know Universal diesels quite well. He knows helpful trivia about these Facet pumps, as well.

When I was "testing" the flow on the new pump, this was from the hose that I pulled off the spinn-on filter housing on the engine. Fuel path is: Tank to Racor (2 micron), then to electric lift pump, and then pushing the fuel into the spinn-on filter. Bleeding air is done with the built-in bleed valve in front of the air cleaner location, at the high-pressure pump connection.

Pump model is the current model of the old Facet 574A that came with the boat. Now called the Facet-Purolator LP-1.

So far, so good.

Loren in PDX
Olson 34 / Universal M25XP with about 1900 hours

These are the same as the old bendix pumps

The companies have changed names etc quite a bit, but they are the same pumps that have been used on heavy machinery for a long long time.

I have aquired about 3 of these from the garbage over the years that were perfectly fine pumps, installed them in various pieces of equiptement after CLEANING THE FILTER in them. Yep most people don't know that the reason the bottom has a wrench attachment is so that you can take them apart and clean out the filter that is in there........

If you get one newer than 2001 make sure that it has the E designation as the last digit on the part, otherwise it may fail in about 10% of the cases or so.

But hey if you are in my marina I am sure that yours is bad, dead, toast..... Just place it next to the garbage so I don't have to go fishing for it please.


So really if you have one you think is bad, try cleaning out the filter berfore throwing it out. I have several that have 10,000+ hours on them and are still running fine...... Oh and did you know that they make an identical pump for aircraft? Only difference, the filter container is able to be wired closed.

Guy

What Guy said about the filter is right on. Boswain's Locker in Long Beach, CA wouldn't take my money for the new pump until I checked the old pumps filter. It was clean, confirming my old pump was dead and not clogged.

Don Taugher
38-200
Running Free

Just wanted to say thanks to all in this topic. I was having problems with my diesel, did a search, and ran across this topic.

Looking at my Faucet fuel pump I would not have thought it had a filter built in. When I took the bottom of, there it was, clogged up with years worth of diesel gunk; I don't know how the motor got enough fuel to even start, let alone run.

There is also a small magnet at the bottom, if you remove the rubber donut, it is in the middle of that.

My 26 year old Universal smokes less and runs better than my dockmates' 4 year old Yanmar!

Now that it runs good, I need to make it a little quieter ...