Autopilots?

I searched on autopilots and found a few threads but not a lot on user experiences (good or bad) with different types of autopilots. I've got a 32-3 with an old ST3000 autopilot. I'm looking to replace it and have been reading about the ST4000 MKII and the Simrad WP30. My focus has been on wheel pilots for price and ease of installation, but I'm open to being swayed to a below deck unit.

Any thoughts, comments and experiences would be welcome, or if I need to search for something else let me know as well.

The ST4000 seems a little harder to install but I like the head unit and it's display. The WP30 seems like it would be very simple to install. Neither installation looks too difficult. Price is about the same. Don't know much about the performance of either unit.

St4000

We have a later-model ST4000 (2 yrs old) on our '87 E34. The below deck ram and components are VERY beefy. The installation required the glassing of a mounting block to the inner hull; the rest of the install was fairly routine. I agree, the control head/display is very user-friendly and - dare I say - intuitive? Suffice to say, it has worked well under all conditions here in the San Francisco bay area. I prefer the below-deck installation as I want as much free space/room in the cockpit as possible; when we race or if we're in bad weather, there are already enough thing around to trip over or get caught in. Good luck and I hope others share their experiences. BTW, when we installed the ST4000, the other option was a B&G (lost more $$, nothing more in quality or performance.)

Navman G-Pilot

Hi there,

we just purchased a Navman G-Pilot and it is being installed. In the course of the research, it came out as one of the best price/value setups. When we test it on the water, will know more, of course... But the biggest part of the decision was the fact that the rest of the instruments on our E32-3 "Fire Eater" are from Navman, so they all talk to each other nicely.

Regards,
Stan

When I aquired "Journey" my E35-III it had a dead Autohelm 4000. When I tried to get it repaired Raytheon, now Raymarine, offered me an upgrade to an ST6000+. Since it used the same below deck drive I accepted. Although more $ than a smaller unit I have not regretted the extra expense. Last year on the way to Clearwater we had 20-25 knots of wind on the port quarter with 6-8 foot following seas and the 6000 tracked like it was a train on rails.

Ray Rhode
S/Y Journey
E35-III, #189

Autopilots

I have an older ST-4000 on my E-36RH. It is mounted on the pedestal and is really out of the way as far as traffic is concerned. It does a formidable steering job in all kinds of conditions.

One thing I have discovered is that there are always good condition Autohelm (now Raymarine) and newer Raymarine autopilots for sale on EBAY. I've actually purchased additional Seatalk units for my boat, and they work great.

I think you will find the below deck pilots much more capable and reliable. My 32-3 came with a Robertson 1000, which I have subsequently upgraded to a Simrad AP22 (Simrad bought Robertson). The ram is mounted on a support fastened behind the quarterberth access panel and is attched to the quadrant which has been reinforced by an aluminum plate bolted to it.

Below deck rams

I'm assuming that in order to mount a below deck unit some sort of mounting was fiberglassed to the hull?

Is attaching to the quadrant difficult and is the stock quadrant able to handle the load? I see Geoff had a reinforcing plate.

I'm beginning to get the feeling that:
Wheel pilots are - cheaper, work pretty well but can be more easily overpowered by wind and sea state, and are easier to install.

Below deck units are - much more expensive, work much better particularly in 'difficult autopilot' conditions, and are much harder to install.

My installation required no fiberglassing. There was installed a plywood post approximately opposite the stuffing box next to the quarterberth in the space exposed when the acceess panel is removed. The ram sits on a shelf bolted to the post. In my case, I had to attach the ram to the quadrant because there is no room for a tiller arm. The PO did not reinforce the quadrant and the ram connection broke out of the cast aluminum quadrant. The Simrad cost an arm and a leg, but it allows me to singlehand the boat in just about any conditions, so I have come to view it as an important safety device.

I, too, am contemplating a new autopilot. My boat had a Benmar CS21 below-decks autopilot installed by the P/O, but it was not working properly (when engaged, boat would turn hard to starboard and spin in circles until pilot was dis-engaged). The Benmar unit seemed very substantial and drove a motor and sprocket that engaged a heavy duty chain, similar to a motorcycle drive chain. Is this chain standard equipment or was it added when the Benmar was installed? The Raymarine motor drive is twice the money of a hydraulic ram that would attach to the quadrant if you look at the ST6000 pilots. After all is said and done, I think we'll end up with either the Simrad WP30 or Raymarine ST4000 wheelpilot. It looks to me (from the specs) that these units will work in most of the conditions we sail in, and use a ton less amperage than the heavier duty below-decks units. Does anyone have any experience interfacing either of these wheelpilots with other instruments and/or charting software programs?

I had the uncontrolled turning probelm with my original autopilot (the wheel would turn hard to port then to starboard, which is a little disconcerting) and being new to autopilots paid to have a technician come to the boat to tell me that the linkage between the quadrant and the rudder position detector had dropped off (as a consequnece the autopilot had no idea it was turning the rudder).

Autopilot Install

Geoff - was the plywood post already there (stock?) or was it added? I'll look at mine this weekend but I don't remember a post, but then again I don't remember a lot of stuff.

It was there when I bought the boat, but I have the impression it was added. Apart from being a good point to attach the autopilot, I am glad it is there because it helps to tie the cockpit into the hull.

A vote for Autohelm...

We are just back from a week and a half on the boat. We used the Autohelm A4000S a lot, but under power....
I installed this unit in '96 and two years ago had to have the motherboard replaced in the control head. OTOH when it was sent in to Raymarine, they put in the newest "+" version of the motherboard. Being on a river with long stretches requiring motoring, we do use it a lot.
Note that it interfaces with the current Raymarine instruments with "Seatalk" bus technology, as well.

I do admit to being a bit hesitant about the Simrad unit with it's integrated compass... Perhaps I just want to feel justified in finding the "right" place to install the remote compass transducer in my boat's interior for the Autohelm!

Loren in PDX
Olson 34 #8

Oops!

After hearing a disconcerting noise in the steering on port tacks this weekend (19+ knots and 2 ft. seas= 7.5 knots boat speed and a whining noise), I started poking around below decks to see what was happening. I'm going through the Edson-recommended procedures for adjusting, checking, lubricating, etc. Nothing seems obvious at this point, except for a worn rubber cover on the quadrant stop. Now to the real reason for this reply -- my first reply said we have an ST4000; I was wrong, it is an ST5000+ and it has been a very reliable unit. Now, back to the steering system inspection...

autopilots

I have had great luck with Raymarine products both in performance and service. I have the ST4000 MKII now on my 30+ and it works well and looks great. I have it connected via Seatalk with other instruments on my Navpod mount above the wheel. Looks great and is easy to see. I also hook up to my Garmin 176C GPSmap and that is terrific! I recommend Raymarine.

Lee

4000 Mkii

I performed the installation of a new 4000 MKII on my 1988 E28 a few years ago. (Not by choice - after purchasing the unit, the dealer informed my that his "technicin" was six months out on installs).

Overall, I would not recommend the unit, although I don't have any experience with other brands so Raymarine may be the best of the bunch. First, the unit would not fit the spokes on my wheel (Raymarine stated that the necessary spacers weren't in the kit and I should figure something out). Second, the new control head wouldn't function (Error message generated wasn't in the manual - returned to Raymarine, whose bench test could find nothing wrong, but upon its return it worked)
Third, with the factory settings, the unit hunted considerably. (Raymarine offerred alternate settings, which helped somewhat, but given the light weight of the E28, I think the unit should be more stable) Fourth, on my boat it was hard to find a suitable location for the fluxgate compass, given Raymarine's parameters. Last, I found the Raymarine tech help to be condescending.

Wheelpilot Update

We had been looking at various autopilots for our E35 MkII as per our previous post. This is just a follow-up on what we did and the results.

After a great deal of research, I finally decided that integration of the autopilot with our other instruments/PC was not a priority. This gave a small price advantage when looking at the various systems available. We had removed a Benmar 21C Course Setter below-decks pilot after failing to get it working correctly. We wanted something simpler and lighter and thought that wheelpilots were the way to go. We looked at the Autohelm ST4000 MkII and Simrad WP10 & WP30, but settled on the WP10 after finding a dealer demo at a great price. It's not that I'm cheap, I just hate to see a good deal go by without taking advantage of it (see my posts on "Refrigeration").

The WP10 is a simple unit requiring only 12V DC connection. Everything else is self contained (i.e. compass, drive motor, belt, clutch, "brains", etc.) so the installation is usually quite simple. Aaaah, and there's the rub. Because of the pedestal being mounted on the bridge deck between aft and forward cockpits, the tube joining the base and binnacle castings is very short (about 2"). I had a ton of fun fitting the mounting bracket on that pedestal tube/binnacle casting! It took me several hours to finally get it in the correct position and plumb and level. Installing the rest of the pilot assembly took about 10 mins plus another 15 to run the power cable and install the connector. It worked first try!

We took the boat out and "calibrated" the fluxgate compass to allow for any idiosyncracies (sp?) of our boat. We left the "gain" and "seastate" adjustments at the default settings. We were unable to test under sail, but while powering along in windless conditions, with a rippled sea everything worked really well. I have used the Autohelm ST4000 on other boats and find the operation of the Simrad unit to be very similar.

Conclusion:
We are very happy with our purchase of the WP10 for our boat. We saved over $600 CDN by not buying the ST4000 MkII or WP30. We will be quite happy not having NMEA connnectivity for our wheel pilot. Apart from the pedastal mount difficulty, the installation couldn't have been easier. I don't anticipate that any other unit would have been easier to install than the WP10. The performance of the device (even though only minimal testing done at this point) is very good and better than we had hoped for.

Hi Mindscape,
I wasn't around when you started this thread so you may have made a choice allready but here is my 2 cents any way.
I have an Alpha 3000. Its a below deck mechanical drive pilot. With a mechanical engagement / disengagment system. So when the pilot is not steering it puts no drag on the system. Also this is a very robust arrangement.
For many years Alpha has been the choice of single handed offshore racers. When you started this thread I was sailing single handed from Hawaii to San Francisco. I had just won the single handed trans pac first place over all. The Alpha did 90% of the steering both ways, even with the chute up.
The Alpha is very fuel efficient burning on average less than 1 amp per hour.
The 3000 model I have dose not talk to any other intruments but they offer the Spectra line that will. But even the simple 3000 model has a auto trim function that starts to "learn" sea state and a seperate yaw control. Both of these feature really do work.
Alpha is a small company in Washington State. I'm pretty sure if you called you could talk to the invetor. The price ins't much differant from any high quality pilot.

Bottom line in my eyes: Bullet proof, proven, low amps, small American company, race winning performance.

So there you go.

Phil