Brinkmanship

Going out tomorrow. Forecast for 12-14 mph winds. Decreasing through midday into the evening.
We are going out in our e-23cb mk2. As this is a new boat to me what can I expect. So far I really haven't been out in a nice breeze since we had her. Should I consider reefing the main or not worry.
Joe

Brink of 10'ers?

Should be a fun day, on the heels of todays "blow", w/some nice rolling swells!

Check this out, pretty "evil" out there NOW!
http://www.ndbc.noaa.gov/station_page.php?station=41025

Also www.wunderground.com great weather link, insert your ZIP @ upper left.

Reefing not required until ~18mph! If you have a traveler,ease that in any gusts.
They're pretty stiff little boats, heel easily to ~15-20* and then stiffen-up.

What headsails do you have? 150% is good to about 15mph(upwind). 135% whould be perfect for the first time out!

Did you snorkle on "that board" yet?

ENJOY, Steve---Let us know how it goes!!!

Back from the brink...

Well that was fun...Noel blowing off the coast heading north pulled a nice steady wind with small white caps and rolling waves down the Pimlico river.
I did not reef it. But found it difficult to keep her on the edge as my 1st mate (aka Carmen) was a little leary of water on the rail...So I spent a lot of time luffing and pinching. Our head sail like the mainsail is what came with the boat as is, where is, well used basic jib...No traveler with the main sheet anchored mid cockpit and about 3/4 back on the boom. The cam cleat on the main sheet block is upside down requiring foot action for a quick release when under load...( 'specially when the first mate looks back with that look.)
I had great time but I'm having a bit difficulty with the fear factor from Carmen.
Steve, thanks for your quick response.
I haven't actually visualized the CB yet but looking at the rudder gives me a pretty good guess what the problem with the board being stuck was. I thought that stuff on the rudder was just slime. It's slime covering barnacles or some such marine growth. The fix is clearly one of basic maintenance that's coming up after thanksgiving.

I don't know how to reassure Carmen that this is a safe boat. I know she will figure this out eventually, but... any one have encouraging stories?
(How about buying new sails? that's my favorite...)
Thanks,
Joe

Over the Brink!

Joe, Congrats on your voyage!

Yours is the "first" 23 I've heard of w/o a traveler, I've seen photos of the stock version, in fact mine has a gel-coat repair where the original block was. Good upgrade for the "wish list"!

As far as Carmen's(the Admiral) concerns, I'm sure it will grow-on-her, they are safe boats! My 1st boat, a Cal 21, got caught out in a nasty squall here on our lake w/ 72mph winds recorded!
We got beat-up a bit, but fully reefed down we survived w/o a problem. That boat got laid over to almost 90* a couple of times, w/ "green water" in the cockpit right to the edge of the hatch-way! She just popped right back up after the gust! Just like the old punch'em clowns(dating myself), all that lead down-low brings'em right back upright in no-time!
I've had MANY non-sailors(dogs included) adapt quickly to life beyond horizontal, just takes a little time.

To my recollection, in 22 years of owning my E23 and sailing in over 50mph winds, I've NEVER taken "green water" over the cockpit coaming(some spray, YES)! With more experience you'll learn how to keep'er on her/your feet. The block/cleat arrangement is OK, just another helping hand(foot)! Mine's rigged the same way(upside down cleat)! Being low in the cockpit you MAY wish to change it, but then it would be hard to cleat it!(it should be flipable)
How many years did you have your old boat(w/ the busted CB)?

I hope to post some pictures @ some point on the modifications I've done to mine. I'm assuming you still have the "original" sails, it would definitely be an improvement in your boating pleasure(and handling) to pick-up a new, or newer, set. There are many good "links" to lofts(do a search of "used sails") that sell "good" used sails.

Looking forward(w/ some concern) to your centerboard discoveries!

Joe,
Don Casey has written a book about helping somewhat reluctant partners/spouses to adapt to sailing (not sure if Carmen is a "reluctant sailor" or just has questions about this particular boat).
Some thoughts on what may be helpful in the short term:

1) Go out in lighter conditions until she is comfortable on the boat, gradually increasing wind, waves, boat heel, etc.

2) Explain the role of the keel and it's impact on stability.

3) Show her all the controls you have available to manage the boat in a blow--eg. choice of sails/furling, sail shape--impact of outhaul, boom vang, back stay adjuster, traveller, mainsheet, etc.

4) Let her take the helm in reasonable conditions, with you close at hand to guide her if needed.

5) Let her "play" with the boat--i.e. turn the wheel/tiller to get a feel for it, adjust the sails, etc. so she learns how the boat handles and its capability.

6) Involve her in the sailing (eg. handling jib sheets) rather than being just a frightened passenger or the galley lackey.

7) Involve her wherever possible in decisions about the boat, so it's not just "your" boat (ie. equipment purchases, trip planning, naming the boat, maintenance work)

7) Provide guidance, but avoid criticism and don't every yell at her

Mainly, give her time to learn about the boat and enjoy it, and do what you can to make it fun and minimize any "issues". You may know all this already, and others may have some better ideas, but just in case you're a relative beginner, managing your partner's adjustment to sailing can be a "make it or break it" thing. It's worth the effort to get it right.

Frank.

A R S

Frank Langer said:

You may know all this already, and others may have some better ideas, but just in case you're a relative beginner, managing your partner's adjustment to sailing can be a "make it or break it" thing. It's worth the effort to get it right.

Click to expand...

Frank, GOOD Attitude Readjustment Seminar ARS!
MUST keep the Admiral HAPPY!

wet feet and fanny

Frank is right on the money - ease the Admiral into the whole experience, and the payoff will be a sailing companion who enjoys it as much as you do. Flip the boat over first time out (that's another story for another time...) and it takes years to undo the damage.

The E23 can stand more than you can, even in centerboard configuration. There are 1300 lbs of lead down in the shoal keel, and every one of them wants to get as close as possible to the center of the planet. A couple of years ago we caught a hard puff followed by a massive header-blast. Though the main was eased way out, the crew had left the winch handle in the genoa sheet winch, and when he dumped it (the boat was already rounding up hard) it over-rode itself on the handle, the genoa backwinded, the boat snapped over, the bow buried, and I watched about 2 inches of water come over the cabin top. It happened much faster than it takes to tell it. The boat popped back up, we got things squared away, and went off after the new leader (we had dropped to 2nd as a result of our "sporty moment".) We had often taken water over the rail - heck, we did that yesterday about 6 times - but seeing it come straight back at me over the companionway hatch got my full attention. We say if there aren't any fish in the water that comes aboard, it doesn't count. But it's a slow way to sail the boat.

If you can see the puffs/blasts coming you can feather the boat upwind a little just before they hit, then ease back down and ride the backside as the velocity eases off - be proactive rather than reactive. You really have to pay attention, but the boat won't lay over nearly as badly, will make better distance to windward, and will go faster too.

Having a traveler really helps in this kind of a situation, because if you have the sail trimmed as you want it, you can ease the trav some then bring it right back to where it was without even looking at it and you will have exactly the same trim. Plus, with the tiller in one hand and the traveler line in the other, you can ease it as you feel helm pressure build.

Make sure that port bulkhead is solid and well attached to the hull, and that the chainplate bolts have no play in them where they pass through the wood.

Bob in Va said:

Make sure that port bulkhead is solid and well attached to the hull, and that the chainplate bolts have no play in them where they pass through the wood.

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By all means, inspect your "chainplate/bulkhead" connection! I almost lost my mast in '01
(C wouldn't like THAT) Look VERY closely where the metal meets the wood(below) as it's hard to notice any problem! Look for any "discoloration" in the wood(wetness) and poke around a bit w/ a knife. Good opportunity to check the tightness of ALL the bolts! If the Port top bolt is lodged against the cabin liner, that is NOT a good sign!
If all is well be sure to maintain the caulk joint on the deck above.

It might behoove you to search old threads("Search"-above) on the E23. Good winter reading!

Finding wind

Thanks all for the responses.
And appreciate the correction on protocol (Admiral). Carmen's issue is not about sailing as she is eager to learn and more than willing to go out as often as our schedules allow, (work gets in the way of everything). Our relationship began by going sailing on the Chesapeake in my 16 ft Rebel. She convinced me to marry her cause she said she would help with buying a bigger boat. That turned out to be 22 ft Hunter that we sailed out of Baltimore 1984-1988. Back then this was not an issue, different boat, more freeboard, I'm not quiet sure. We took a hiatus while we raised the childs, (I'm not sure which is more expensive)? She and I both agree that we both missed sailing which is how we now have Rainbowt. We bought her early summer and have mostly been out in hot drifty days. When I saw how well built the Ericson was I was sold, I pointed out how much lead was there and what a difference that makes. After replacing the standing rigging as a precaution I was ready to find some wind...Maybe I should not have talked about ..."always go to the high side..."

The issue with Carmen is when she sees them seas...I thought having others tell about their experience with the e-23 and heavy weather sailing might reassure her. I think what has already been shared has helped. I noticed Chapmans was laying on the couch this morning bookmarked to "Special Seamanship Techniques...under adverse conditions."
Thanks,
btw...I have checked the chainplates and bolts and no overt problems observed. I will look again.
Any info about adding a traveler would be appreciated. Where do most people have thiers?
Thanks
Joe

Not a Bicycle?

Joe, Your extremely fortunate to have a romantic sailing background w/ Carmen(cute story, I can relate, almost verbatum).
It's "good" to know that sailing is not something NEW to her, as in starting from "square-one"(been-there-done-that w/ mixed results).
Perhaps with your sailing in "semi-retirement"(to raise kids) some of the youthful bravado has been tempered by caution(common side-effect of parenthood). Getting "back-on-the-bike" might take a little effort, re-learning(hence the book) and new "invigorating"(yes, stimulating) experiences. After all, you both haven't "ridden" in awhile! Ideally spending some time on another boat(bigger) w/ some seasoned sailors in some exciting "wind & waves" would soften the learning curve(yacht club?)
I can assure you(and Carmen) that your E23 won't let you down! It's a much better boat than the Hunter!JMHO

Good to hear you re-rigged "the boat"(can't use HER:rolleyes_d I did the same shortly after I bought mine(larger?) As I mentioned before I'll post some pics before I decommission, I've got a good "before and after" story for you(about the traveler)!

If I may add a recommended book to your reading list, SEA SENSE ('72)by Richard Henderson. It's a good, simply written, overview on "safe boating"! It's a bit dated, but "good seamanship" has no time boundries.

Sailing through the winter.

So we never did pull Rainbowt out of the water, I know the bottom is well covered in some marine form of Kudzu, we have had too muchfun sailing and discovering how well this boat performs. We have been out at least once a month through this winter and looks like the weather will be nice this week as well. Recaulked around the chain plates after finding water in the bilge, worked, no more water. I do like dry boats. Of the things that I am intolerant, leaks of water and leaks of petroleum top my list. The Admiral has adjusted well and is now feeling comfortable enough that she is now talking bigger boat. I purchased a wonderful drifter sail and two weeks ago we spent the day drifting up and down the Pamlico river. The local guys at the marina where Rainbowt is kept have been trying to get me to race with them but so far I have resisted. Maybe in another year or two.
Back in January there were a couple of days we went out in some nice 15-25kt days. Once we started reefing the main, things became much better, improved control and comfort. This is a wonderful boat. Things got a little tense falling off and running. I started thinking about the days I used to sail my 16ft Rebel and she would get up on top of a wave and start to surf. We I did a well controlled jibe and then did a fast fun broad reach back to the marinia. Several times I thought I was going have a wave break over the stern but Rainbowt just kept pushing through. That was fun.
I anticipate I am likely to become a two Ericson-boat owner very soon at least for a while.
I got the fever...Bigger boat....

Reefing REALLY Early

On days when its in the iffy category for a reef, I usually put one in at the dock (easiest when the boats not moving). It keeps the wife happy as it ends up as a more peaceful and uneventful sail. Of course once we get out we can always shake it out. Easier to shake it than reef it when underway.

There have been a couple of days that being reefed almost felt too conservative but I admit my stress level goes way down knowing that I could be going faster but going comfortable is really nice and fun especially with the admiral aboard. I think what I miss is racing...I really enjoy making a boat go faster. Riding the edge, brinkmanship.

Rainbow Warrior

Hey Joe, Welcome back!

Glad to hear you've had the opportunity to sneak in all these months of experience. The water's a tad bit "hard" here. Glad your "happy" w/ the boat(I had NO doubt).

Use her to familiarize yourself w/ your local waters as it's soooo much easier to "get-out-and-push" a small boat w/ 2' of daft off a bar than a larger fixed keel boat.

Not getting stuck and fever

The reason I bought a center board boat, even though I swore I never do it again, was I didn't want to worry about getting stuck. It's worked so far.
I've trimmed the main using a little more effort on the halyard and out haul, and that appears to have improved balance all around. I've experienced very little weather helm in multiple points of sail and weather. This is very well designed boat. The amount of decreased physical effort is a pleasant surprise too. I'm additionally pleased with this boats ability to point without the centerboard down.
Head room has become an issue with my primary investor. I am wondering if shopping for a bigger boat this year might be a good opportunity. I've been drooling over several E-30-32-34s...and my temperature is rising.

Over the "brink" again?

rainbow-t said:

Head room has become an issue with my primary investor. I am wondering if shopping for a bigger boat this year might be a good opportunity. I've been drooling over several E-30-32-34s...and my temperature is rising.

Click to expand...

They do make drugs for that affliction!

A dodger would add some flexibility to the equation. It's on MY list this year. Don't know how I've suvived w/o it.

Alas, bigger IS better, and I feel that the used sailboat market IS going to look tempting because of gas prices. Best time to buy? Who knows where this economy's going. I'm just glad that ALL my "toys" are paid for.

My wife and I moved up from a 23 foot boat to our 1984 Ericson 30+ and are very pleased. We can manage this boat nicely with just the two of us (and I can single-hand it as well), yet it gives us much more room than our 23 foot boat did. We are very pleased with it's sailing performance as well, and are able to handle winds/waves that we wouldn't have risked in our smaller boat.
Frank.

Fever !

About the "bigger boat" fever that Joe is suffering from...
One little suggestion, if I may, is to look at boat sizes in terms of displacement and sailing repute, and finally LOA.
I have limited experience in boat buying, but have always kept in mind a statement by NA Bob Perry. I may not have all the exect words in proper order, but the gist of it is to:
Decide how much *minimum* interior you actually need to make you happy; then buy all the waterline length you can afford; finally, it should always make you smile when you row away from it and look back.

As I recall the general context, from several decades ago, he was not advising a spartan existance, but rather cautioning about buying too much interior that you do not need. Of course, DWL is the *one* feature that gives you the most speed under sail or power. That and avoiding excessive beam-to-length ratios.

Which reminds me of some other advice from yacht designer Ted Brewer -- look for boats where the outside was designed first, i.e. for sailing, and then a cruising interior was fitted into that shape. He laments that so many "modern" sailboats are designed the other way around.

As to my opening thought, when we were shopping, we decided to focus on the amount of boat (displacement) that we were comparing, one to another.
That observation helped lead us to our Olson 34, which displaces about the same as a beamy Catalina 30.... and is light years faster. Both are about 10'10" in beam, but for comparison, our design rates 99 (!) down in SF Bay.

You should not particularly want a boat just like mine... but do consider the viewpoints of sailor/designers like Brewer and Perry. Along with Bruce King, Tom Wylie, and Raymond Richards, I consider these guys "royalty" in the world of sail boat designs for people who intend to leave the dock and actually go sailing.

Opinions rendered on the hour, deposit .03 (price raised due to $$ devaluation)

Loren