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Viking needing a pep talk....

oceanview

Member I
Hello all! I am the former owner of a 73 E35 that I adored.... I sold her in hopes of buying a larger nicer boat for our growing family. Guess what? I found one! another Ericson of course! This one is an 89 E38 -200. She's everything i want and more (aft cabin for the kids, large galley, great design etc...) negotiated with the owner and settled on a fair price. Sea trial went fine, needs all new running rigging and has a bunch of cosmetic needs (many spider cracks in gelcote) needs a new main sail, but, all in all, seemed like a great deal. and then.... THE SURVEY, (add music that goes ba-ba-baaaaaa))<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:oops:ffice:oops:ffice" /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
So many little things! the hull had some blisters, but I was expecting that. Nothing terrible. then some of the winches need rebuilding, fine, still no prob. then water heater need replacing,,, I can do that. then steering cables need replacing, (grrrrrr) but ok, then windlass doesn’t work, stove doesn’t work. anchor rode needs replacing and the electrical "systems have been modified in a less than professional manner" The engine stop cable is frayed and broken. the refrigeration doesn’t work. AAAGGGGGG!!!!!! <o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
My plan is still to move forward. I will ask for a dramatic drop in price but please, PLEASE someone remind me how worthy of my life's blood this is worth! PLEASE!!!!!! (((my wife said, how bout that Catalina 34 we looked at? That was nice))) :esad:
Any pep talking would be greatly apreciated:egrin:
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Hello all! I am the former owner of a 73 E35 that I adored.... I sold her in hopes of buying a larger nicer boat for our growing family. Guess what? I found one! another Ericson of course! This one is an 89 E38 -200. She's everything i want and more (aft cabin for the kids, large galley, great design etc...) negotiated with the owner and settled on a fair price. Sea trial went fine, needs all new running rigging and has a bunch of cosmetic needs (many spider cracks in gelcote) needs a new main sail, but, all in all, seemed like a great deal. and then.... THE SURVEY, (add music that goes ba-ba-baaaaaa))<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:oops:ffice:oops:ffice" /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
So many little things! the hull had some blisters, but I was expecting that. Nothing terrible. then some of the winches need rebuilding, fine, still no prob. then water heater need replacing,,, I can do that. then steering cables need replacing, (grrrrrr) but ok, then windlass doesn’t work, stove doesn’t work. anchor rode needs replacing and the electrical "systems have been modified in a less than professional manner" The engine stop cable is frayed and broken. the refrigeration doesn’t work. AAAGGGGGG!!!!!! <o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
My plan is still to move forward. I will ask for a dramatic drop in price but please, PLEASE someone remind me how worthy of my life's blood this is worth! PLEASE!!!!!! (((my wife said, how bout that Catalina 34 we looked at? That was nice))) :esad:
Any pep talking would be greatly apreciated:egrin:

Your list would be the same for a Catalina of the same vintage... or worse...
The worn mainsail and recalcitrant winches would seem to point to a boat that has not been away from the dock in years, but was once.
Water heater 'bout due for replacement, same reasons...
Stove and fridge, same rationale.
Time to add up the fixit costs and lower the offer by that much.

Problem is that most owners sell their boat rather than do the needed upgrades and preventative maintenance in the last 5 to 10 years that they own it. And the owner of this one may have performed worse than that average. Situations like this usually turn a potentially 80K boat into 50K boat.
(That's how we bought our fixer-up O-34 back in '94 for about 45K rather than the 70K that it should have gone for had it been maintained.) :rolleyes:

FWIW, that's a popular model, and when you get the maint. list caught up will always have a waiting buyer down the watery road when you decide to sell it someday.

We have never been disappointed with the basic construction quality in our Ericson, while friends with Catalinas, and Hunters of the same vintage have had a longer list of basic hull & deck problems to address.
FWIW, the Catalina 34 is a decent-sailing model, but after you look at the hull-to-deck joint and then compare that to the glassed-together joint in the Ericson, you will be amazed at the difference.

Fair winds,
Loren
 
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Frank Langer

1984 Ericson 30+, Nanaimo, BC
I agree with Loren (as usual!). Our friend had a Catalina 30 and we had a similar vintage Ericson 30+. Our boat was built so much better than the Catalina, and could easily beat her to any destination; ours also got alot more compliments at the dock. If I had to replace our boat or buy a larger one, I would always choose the Ericson over a Catalina. But any boat will require maintenance and upgrades as they age. None of the problems you mentioned are serious, they are all solveable with a bit of effort and supplies, and they should help you to substantially reduce the asking price.

There is lots of help available on this site for any problem you might encounter.

Good luck with your decision!

Frank
 

bayhoss

Member III
Please allow me to come in on this as well. I sold a Catalina to get an Ericson and the difference was off the scale. As mentioned previous, use the requirements to get a lower price. These are not insurmountable problems. And, after they are done the boat will have better systems that should give more enjoyment/service.

Best Always,
Frank
 

KanH

Member II
sort of been there

the good thing is that you know what needs to be done. My survey some how missed a couple of things on my 30+which did not allow me to try to reduce the asking price.

I had to replace the shrouds, running rigging, life lines and more but it was all worth it for me.

At one point there was a Catalina 30 right next to me in the in the marina. Seeing the two next to each other the Ericson was the clear winner. Faster and better built. Although he did have the advantage of vastly more storage space.

don't get me wrong, Catalina makes a good boat which has a loyal following and a great support system. I just love my 30+ over their 30 foot option.:egrin:
 

Akavishon

Member III
it is worth it

I have no opinion on the Catalina vs Ericson discussion, but I'd like to comment on the philosophy of purchasing a boat in need of TLC.

My 1986 E32 came with a lot of baggage when I bought her ... a list similar to yours. Unfortunately, most of it went unnoticed - I did not know where to look, my surveyor did not care to look much, so reality revealed itself to me little by little. There was no other option but to roll up the sleeves and dig in.

Now, I'm your typical office worker, and never thought of myself as mechanically talented. If anything, I'm a bit clumsy :nerd: ... I had to buy tools, read a lot, develop skills I thought I never had, and learn new things, sometimes the hard way. Over the past few years, I've visited, fixed or improved many of her systems - she is a much better boat now, and I have come to think of myself as a much more competent boat owner. Ultimately, it was hugely gratifying, as I realized that I enjoy working on the boat almost as much as sailing her. I also enjoy knowing exactly what's "under the hood" and feeling confident that a) it's solid and healthy; and/or b) I know how to fix it.

Next time around, I will deliberately look for a boat that's a "good platform", with solid and healthy fundamentals, but in need of TLC. She will be more affordable, I will enjoy getting to know her inside out, making her a better lady (while she makes me a better mariner), and tailoring her to my needs and personal preferences. I dont't know about you, but I've come to realize that this is a large part of what "boating" means to me.

good luck!
 

treilley

Sustaining Partner
Go for it. Those are minor issues.

My Ericson lost the transmission on the delivery. We pulled into Marblehead and found we lost forward gear. Walked up to Hansen Marine in the morning and bought a new one. Had a friend come down from Maine with his tools and by 6pm, the boat had a new tranny. Never saw that one coming.

She ended up being an awesome boat and we sold her for a premium.
 

dwigle

Member III
Go for it

When I bought my 38, it was pretty bare, no refrigeration, alcohol stove, minimal electronics, no windlass, etc... . So I had the joy of installing all that and more, but now everything is recent, I know how it is installed, and it al works. Many of the 38's we looked at had upgrades, but they were added when the boat was new and I had no use for things like a CRT radar mounted below, I'm much happier with the LCD panel under the dodger we added.

Things like the steering cables are just a good idea on a vintage boat, as they wear from the inside out and you don't see it, and it would probably be a lot easier when the water heater was out.

Among the things our boat's previous owner did: replace the VHF with a Worst Marine unit, I like a remote mic, so that was changed out for a Standard Horizon; replace the head with a Wilcox C, wife likes Raritans, so first Valentines Day (really) that was taken care of: added Roller furling, I thought it was undersized, so that went when we replaced rigging. and so on.

As long as the price matches what's there, and you can sail the boat, go for it you end up with what you want, done the way you want it.

Don Wigle
Wiggle Room
E38 #8
Pt Richmond, CA
 

u079721

Contributing Partner
We were spoiled when we bought our 38, because it was only 5 years old. But while this to-do list is daunting, ANY boat over 20 years will need to have all of this done at some point (though not perhaps all at once).

As long as you can get some price concessions - go for it. That way when all the work is finally done you will have a boat that is good as new, AND one that you can trust. Just to try to remember to mix in some sailing this season along with all the maintenance, to remind yourself of why you are doing this!
 
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Afrakes

Sustaining Member
1981 e-28+

I have decided to purchase an E-28 project that's been on the hard for a number of years. Does anyone out there have a manual specific to the 28+? I'll be putting "Shadow" my E-27 #335 up for sale if anyone is interested. Al Frakes
 

TRMN8R

Member II
There are loads of documents available on the Download Center near the bottom of the home page. I downloaded everything on my E27, printed and put them in a binder by sub-category for reference. This is a great source of information along with this forum. GL!:egrin:
 
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treilley

Sustaining Partner
Just for comparison sake, we just bought a pristine boat that was actively being cruised. Actually sent the owner back to Texas. I have not stopped working on it since.
 

bigd14

Contributing Partner
Blogs Author
If I spend 8-10 hours sailing every week of the year for the next 2.5 years I will just about make up for the amount of time spent working on the boat to get it into sailing shape. :p

Granted it was a known fixer, but I initially estimated that it would take 6 months to get it all done... Unfortunately, its ALL connected! Don't underestimate the amount of time and $$ it takes to get all systems you mentioned operating correctly! And you will likely find other unexpected issues too...

I love this kind of work and thought process though, so its been a great experience which I wouldn't trade for anything. Although if (when?) I do it again, I would buy a larger fixer boat.

Most importantly, I have had my hands on every inch of the boat and personally installed every system, so if something goes wrong there will be no mystery.

And I never even sailed it before the restoration began so I would consider a boat where most of the systems worked and you could actually sail it would be a huge bonus:egrin:
I say go for it!
 

Mort Fligelman

Member III
Pep Talk

Hi Oceanview:

Some ramblings along the lines of the previous post by some pretty knowledgeable people....

0ver 40 years of boat ownership.....3 boats purchased brand new.......I can't begin to tell you all that I went through in making them correct.....most of the factory installs had to be redone......leaked like seives......

One used boat belonged to a friend that I helped cure the "Brand New Junk Blues".......For family and financial reasons the had to sell....and knowing the boat....I had to buy....

Another used boat was a disaster......very fast and won a lot of races as long as it held together......a combination of factory junk and P/O rat rigging...but it was fast....I don't even want to count the hours and money wasted.....bad boat.....bad decision.....the guys that bought it did a number on it.....old story...."enough time and money anything is possible....

Bought my 1987 35-3 in 2006......by this time I knew what I was buying.....no surprises.....some systems had to be brought into the 21st century....this I knew....there were leaks.....wear.....some neglect....some bad maintainance.....but this was all reflected in the price I negotiated.....frankly, the survey the P/O had done was a waste of money....I could have crawled around and done a much better job.....I now have a boat that will be my last one (the nursing home from here) and I have gotten it in A1 condition and now look forward to just normal maintainance and a lot of sailing.

A lot of words, but I hope you get the Ericson and enjoy it as most of us seem to do.

Regards
 

oceanview

Member I
Thank you guys!!! I asked and you all delivered:egrin: I feel great after reading all your replies. Great pep talk! I offered quite a bit less due to the issues and the seller accepted. I’m stoked again!! :egrin: <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:oops:ffice:oops:ffice" /><o:p></o:p>
 
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