Headliner Replacement

I have just acquired a 1972 Ericson 39 and would like to restore her. She is in fairly good shape except for a few deck leaks which have caused damage to the headliner. I would like to remove the headliner, locate and repair the deck leaks and install a new headliner to match the manufacturers original. Any advice regarding the deck repair process, and locating and installing a new headliner would be greatly appreciated!

Bungs, Foam and Glue - Oh My!

Thinking of taking down the headliner, eh? I did that in the head of my E35-3 – the dorade box and vent guard on deck was leaking like a sieve, and the foam inside the liner was badly molded and just plain nasty. At the time (winter 2000-01), I thought I would be putting in a smart teak headliner as a replacement…I was wrong.

Before you do the liner you have to determine what needs to be re-bedded and plan on doing it order: access, then re-bed, then demolition, then restoration. It’s pointless to spend the time restoring something if you’ve not fixed the issue that caused the problem in the first place. There are lots of books on bedding hardware – try Don Casey's 'Hull and Deck Repair' – it’s a nice, high overview. West Systems also puts out a nice primer.

Basically, you have to ensure that the hardware is pulled off, cleaned and then the access point is sealed (i.e. – so water cannot breach the deck core – you have to back fill/pack it with epoxy – then mount the hardware through the epoxy after it cures. What you choose to bed it with is up to you – there are a few competing brands – but I chose to use good, old-fashioned Dolfinite – it’s nasty to work with – but once it on, it’s on.

To gain access to the liner itself, you have to remove the teak molding that borders it, as well as the staples beneath that secure it to the coach house roof (CHR). You do this by either (in the simple case) unscrewing it – or (in the less-than-simple case) remove the bungs that hide the screw heads and then remove the screws that way.

In the salon, you’ll also have to contend with the batons (the right term to use?) that provide support from above the liner – and have hard connections to the CHR – screws – and, if that’s not enough for you – Ericson also used glue to secure the foam to the CHR. Once you get the old vinyl, batons and staples out of the way, then you’ll get to spend time with a wire brush and thousands of little bits of moldy foam raining down on you ...

Once it’s down, and everyone is fussing at you because it looks so horrible, then you can choose what to replace it with. Take some advice – I’ve discovered that with only a few exceptions, Ericson tended to do things pretty well – so in the case of the headliner, the way they put it up provided the headroom you’ve come to enjoy, etc.

If you choose a new path (like the teak I was considering) think carefully about what it will do to the original design (headroom) as well as cable runs, hardware access, etc. Also, while you’re in there, It's also a good opportunity to look at structural aspects of the boat (tabbing, etc) to ensure that things are as they should be and there’s no damage to the CHR. When looking at colors, etc – I suggest choosing a conservative path – you’ll be glad you did when you sell the boat.

What happened in my case? Well, I ended up putting vinyl (nice, expensive, ‘like leather’ vinyl) back up – because of the slope of the deck and the headroom needed in the head (when one is in the shower, etc – I’m, 6’ 1”, so…).

Basically, I discovered that the headliner business (like furniture re-upholstering) is something of an art – and there are lots of tricks and little things that are important during installation. If I were in your shoes (assuming you’ve never done it before) I would hire someone good as a consultant to assist you (after demolition) so it looks great afterward. In my case, it turned out nice – but there was this one tiny fold I could not get rid of that just drove me crazy, and well – you know….
Good Luck!

//sse

e-39 headliner

Hello

Just did my e-39 headliner in August just after buying it.
Pretty much the same as you the boat surveyed very well but leaked through a chainplate and stained the headliner.

Pretty much like Sean said with the staples and foam. The little stapels where not spared, lots of them.

After getting them all out there were 1/4 inch thick strips going accrossed the cabin top. I laminated another 1/4" strip over the existing ones so I would have something to screw to. I did my cabin top in 1/4" tung and grove wood.

I started from the center out and when I got to the edges I made templets out of heavy paper.
I measured the headroom and came out with the same 6'4" as it had with the headliner.
I primered it and painted it gloss white as my wife wanted, hard to paint over pretty wood for me. We are both happy with the results.

I did reseal all the deck fitting while the headliner was down.
The wood can still be taken down in case I need to get to the cabin top.
I have pictures if you would like to see.

Sam

Pictures?

If you could post a close up or two, I would sure appreciate it.

Loren in PDX

headliner pics

I used 3m 5200 adhesive and #6 ss screws to laminate the top.

Loren , can't tell if the files attached or not , hope they work.

Sam,

I took off the pvc corner

vberth

We like the wood , it's been raining and with the 1/2 air gap it doesn't seem to sweat bad.

Excellent!

Very nice job! What was the finish you used on the wood?

//sse

HEADLINER

THANKS:

WELL DESPITE YEARS OF WORKING ON BOATS AND ALWAYS USING ZSPAR, I DID USE A HIGH GRADE EXTERIOR LATEX.

TWO COATS OF PRIMER AND ONE COAT OF GLOSS.
SEEING ITS INSIDE HOPEFULLY IT WILL WORK OUT OK.

I ENJOY THE WEBSITE , THANKS

SAM

I may become inspired from your photos

Sam,

That looks very good. I may have to pull off the headliner on my E39 also. We have been thinking of some light wood with 1/8" gaps rather than t and g. Any insulation behind that wood? Special advice?

Regards, Ethan

headliner

evm:

Our surveyor in L.A. advised to leave a air gap between the cabin top and the wood and his original advise was to put slats about 1/8" apart as you are doing.
Since then I have had people tell me it should have been insulated.

I can just tell you it doesn't seem to sweat and is staying dry.
We live aboard and when Cecile ,my better half cooks the windows and companion way doors steam up . I touch the wood and it seems to stay dry.

It seem to be the best change we have made on the boat yet .
I also made a set of companion way doors instead of the boards , also a great improvement but thats a whole other project.

That cabin top does seem bigger when you start replacing it.
Like sean advised I resealed the winches and stantions ect. while I had the headliner down. It just takes time about two weeks working on it everyday.

I had to make some plates to go between the cabin top and the t+g where the stantions were though bolted so it wouldn't crush the t+g when the stantions were tightened.

Thats about it.

Sam

insulation

I had a friend that contact cemented closed cell foam (blue foam from camping) to the hull and overhead. Then she placed strips with airspace over it. No condensation and good insulation.

Rebeding all the deck hardware has been on my todo list for some time....

--Ethan

headliner

I thought about the insulation but didn't want to lose the headroom, so far so good we have a pretty good cold snap going in Blaine and I'm having no problem with heating at 31 degrees.

Good luck with your project- oh I thought about putting teak handholds on the inside angle just above the pvc corner you see in the pictute , perfect place for them, it would have been easier for me if I would have thought of it before I finished the overhead.

sam

Headliner

Sam,

I've read the entire thread about your headliner project. I'm totally impressed by what you've done. I'm the third owner of a 1981 Ericson 36. The previous owner fancied himself to be a carpenter and totally screwed up a headliner installation job. I gotta fix it before it drives me totally nuts.

I have a few questions that you could answer here or send me an email if you have time:
1) When you say "tongue and groove" where did you buy it? Is it pine or some other marine grade wood?

2) Did you have any issues with softeness in the cabin top itself? Was the balsa core waterlogged at all in any places?

3) I was thinking about using formica sheets as a replacement for the material used in the headliner. Do you think I will have condensation or breathing issues with the dead space between the sheets at the cabin top?

4) Did you consider other materials other than the tongue and groove stuff? (i.e. marine grade plywood, etc).

If you have time to answer I would really appreciate it.

Thanks,

Steve Schwartz
E-36 RH "GLORY DAYS"
sailsteve@aol.com

headliner

Hi - I, too, looked at this thread for headliner ideas. My biggest concern was for future leaks that will occur and so I wanted my headliner panels to be removable. I finally decided to partition the overhead using plywood stips, make patterns out of 1/8 inch luaun, cut the panels out of water resistant doorskin, cover each of them with off-white naugahyde, and screw these panels into place using 3/8 X 2-inch teak battens to hide the seams. I am really pleased with the look and how easy it is to remove all of it. Condensation is a non-issue since the deck is cored and there is a half-inch air gap between the underside and the doorskin. If at some point something should discolor, it is an easy job to make a new panel and replace it. My job was much easier than most because the PO had gone to all the trouble of removing the zillion steel (read "rusty") staples that were shot all over the place. However, having said all this, I am not finished yet. I have the V-berth and the aft cabin to do, but once I got the main salon done and could live with it, sailing started to be a lot more important. Good luck...

I've started work on my headliner replacment. This is one of an series of projects that are in the works. Just too little time to get it done as fast as I would like.

You can see the currrent state and some history by going to a website that I've set up to document the progress. Nothing fancy.

http://arafel.org/sailing/index.html

The plan is to install some 1/4" baltic birch panels on the ceiling with access to the backing plates through small access plates also of birch.

Regards, Ethan

Gorgeous job on the headliner - looks outstanding.

To return to the original question about deck leaks, I noticed the word 'restore'. In New Orleans it rains quite a bit, or at least it has the last nearly three years I have been in Pensacola. If there is any doubt about when any of the deck fittings were rebedded, I would redo them all.

A big job, but nothing to the deck repairs that will be required if there is leakage for any sustained period in this climate. There may be some fittings, such as the hand rails, that are screwed into the deck without being through bolted, which allow water into the deck with no way out, and are guaranteed to cause problems. Yes, this is the voice of experience, one of my chainplates went too long without rebedding, and although it never leaked into the cabin, when I cam to rebed it I had to replace seven feet of deck core. I guess Ericson were planning on their boats staying in California, where the typical year yields less rain than any one of the tropical storms of 2002.

I also recommend the Don Casey book that Sean mentioned, and feel free to ask any more questions here.

Gareth
Freyja E35 #241 1972

To be able to access deck hardware and get rid of the
vinyl, here's the headliner I built on my Ericson.

Given the on-going need for adding and cataloging information on headliners, it seems like a good idea to bump this thread. Currently I have a fair % of the staples pulled out to access the tracks under the side decks and also the stanchions. We are looking at designing a replacement series of flat panels for the side deck part, but so far will resist trying to remake the cabin overhead because anything that reduces the standing headroom is undesirable. We want to retain the 6'2" height. Also, the 'look' of the original vinyl is really nice and I do not want to replace it with something substandard-appearing.
There seem to be zero solutions that suit every model. (sigh....)