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New Sails Planning - Mack?

RKCRWLR

Member II
Starting to think about sails for Goin' Rogue (E26-300). A new main and 135 roller is at the top of the upgrade list. I have starting researching the obvious lofts... Doyle, North, etc. Comparing every aspect of construction/price, etc is daunting at best. I have yet to contact MACK Sails, in FL, but like thier advertising attitude. Anyone had experience with them?

Thanks! ...and Happy New Year!:)
 

tdtrimmer

Member II
Mack Sails

I purchased both a jib and a main from Mack Sails about 7 years ago. They are of the highest quality. I also purchased their Mack Pack main sail cover system. It works quite well. The stitching started to come out of the Mack Pack after 7 years (sun rot) so I called Travis at Mack Sail. At his request I shipped it to them and they restitched it at no charge. The sails are terrific and are like new even after 7 years on the boat. I highly recommend Mack Sails for quality of product and quality of service.
Tom
 

RKCRWLR

Member II
It always reassuring

...to hear of great constomer service. Darn hard to find in any industry these days. I will be talking to Mack and one of the candidate makers. I find thier mitre cut genoa concept interesting reading. I'll have to research it more! I want well made, durable sails that fit properly and a loft that will work with me from remote. Tougher deal when you sail away from the regular grounds. I have been a little concerned with the one-size-fits-all concept of some, as the rigging varies a bit with the series of E26. A custom sail seems a better plan (pun intented). On a small boat, I have the advantage that the cost spread from low to high is still not that much difference in the scheme of things....
 

stuartm80127

Member II
Mack Sails

I purchased a complete set of Mack sails for my E27 Stargazer in 2009. Sailed them up at Dillon, CO in 2009 and then in Pacific last Summer. I ordered a full battened triple reefed Main with sail slides on the foot (they really push a loose footed main which just isn't my fancy), a hank on 130 Genoa, 80 working Jib and a storm jib. All have been of superb quality and their customer support/service/attitude is excellent. I would highly recommend using a set of sail slugs with a 3" at the clew versus a bolt rope. Greatly facilitates outhaul when sail is wet/icy.
 

RKCRWLR

Member II
More good info... Thanks! I have noticed that most lofts are pushing the loose foot, except doyle, who proposes a shelf. I have not owned a loose foot, but know most of the local racers/performance gurus like it. I don't race and single hand most of the time so control of the main when dropping her in a breeze is high on the list, making me lean towards a captured foot. I currently have full bats. The only drawback is they do leverage so its a winch up and keep it dead to wind when dropping. I usually just motor forward into weather and lower it, though I normally have to pull it down the last half at the mast.:rolleyes:
 

SurabyaKid

Member III
When I bought a new main for my E26-300 in the summer of 2009, I found the lofts were also keen on the loose foot then. I went with the recommendation and have been very happy with the results. I race and cruise and find the ability to shape the sail enhanced with the loose foot.

I did add lazy jacks to help control the sail on takedown as I single hand quite a bit. I used a design that lets me get them out of the way except for the takedown.

If you do go with the loose foot, you may have to rework your in-boom outhaul a bit. I found it difficult to loosen the outhaul in lighter airs and changed the purchase from 4:1 to 2:1 to make it easier.

Pat
 

Emerald

Moderator
More good info... Thanks! I have noticed that most lofts are pushing the loose foot, except doyle, who proposes a shelf. [snip]

For what it's worth, I purchased a used main in very good condition a couple seasons back (it was originally on an Alerion), and it has a shelf foot. I have been very happy with the shelf foot cruising. It flattens up nicely going to winward (I did have to upgrade the purchase on my outhaul, but I needed to do that anyway), and I feel like a get a benefit letting the belly out off the wind. I can't tell how it would compare to a loose foot on my boat, but I'm happy with it. Something it does have that I would never not have is a Dutchman flaking system. I've sailed on several boats with lazy jacks, and IMO, the lazy jacks aren't even in the same league. The Dutchman really works well, and still works even when you're not dead into the wind. I feel like the lazy jacks I've been exposed to are too sensitive to fouling battens etc. if you don't hold her just right (I know someone will say that can be handled by changing the control lines...), but even when the lazy jack works to contain the sail, it still isn't flaked on par with the Dutchman. OK, flame suite on, but that's my take :cool:

And a link of you're not familiar with it:

http://mvbinfo.com/

and my sail looks like what's in this picture, every time :egrin:
 

beachologist

Member I
We bought a Mack fully battened main 3-4 years ago and are completely happy with it. We told them what we wanted and that is what we got.
 

RKCRWLR

Member II
Thanks for the feedback...

After discussoins with EPSails and Mack, I ordered a main and 135 from Mack last week. Tough call between the two. I have an EP main and 110 that are very good sails, but I simply got a better warm and fuzzy from Mack. Will post once they are on and tested!

Interestingly, I got quotes from Mack, EP, Bacon, and the online supposedly less costly lofts. Mack and EP were right there with them and both make thier sails in thier own lofts and in Mack's case, is using Marblehead on the main and HP on the genoa... draw your own conclusions on value....:cool:
 

toddbrsd

Ex-Viking, Now Native American
Prices Please

Unless you folks are really private about what you paid, it would sure be nice to know what the cost of these things are for those of us who have these purchases in our future. This goes for those recent puchases as well as those not so recent pruchases.

Thanks for your consideration.
 

RKCRWLR

Member II
Tough to compare, but....

Todd,

I wanted a loose foot full batten main w/cunningham and ensignias; and a roller furling foan luff 135 genoa. Prices ranged from around $2200 to $3400 dollars. Mack offered a considerable multi-sail discount, landing at $2500, using 6.62 HA dacron on the main and 5.77 Marblehead on the Genny. Cloth weight and type are significant contributors to cost differences. I wanted a heavier cloth given the my sailing conditions.

Ullman did not respond wit a quote as of yet (don't anticipate one now) even though I said I had bought two sails from them in 08. I was happy with thier sails before, but I am not going to beg to give anyone my business. Most of the lofts I spoke with seemed extremely busy, not particularly interested in my small purchase, and not very interested in giving me the sail I wanted; rather selling me something else. EP and Mack were both helpfull. I have an EP main and 110 that are old but still have very good shape. I was inclined towards them, but it would have been nearly $500 more when all was said and done. I really like that EP and Mack make these sails here in thier lofts. Not that I am against the global economy... I simly got a better warm and fuzzy from Mack.
 

Lawrence B. Lee

Member III
Good People

I have a 135 roller furling jib and a main from Mack. I had a little problem with the slides on the main and they fixed it in a jiffy. Frankly, it was my fault but they made it right at their expense. These sails are beautiful and I would order again in a heart beat from these guys. I went with Mack because several other Ericson owners in Savannah recommended them. Good choice.

Larry Lee
Annabele Lee
E-32-200
Savannah, GA
 

jkenan

Member III
Is there a real improvement in quality with a mitre-cut genoa over the more common cross-cut? I've read Mack's explanation of the differences in quality, but would also appreciate the unbiased opinion of other's here. I need to replace my 135 Genoa, and am strongly considering the Mack mitre cut using Marblehead dacron. I also have a quote from Ulman for the cross cut, which is slightly more. The Ulman quote specifies 'high quality dacron', and I don't know if that's better than the Marblehead.

Any thoughts?

Thanks.
 

Sven

Seglare
Something it does have that I would never not have is a Dutchman flaking system. I've sailed on several boats with lazy jacks, and IMO, the lazy jacks aren't even in the same league. The Dutchman really works well, and still works even when you're not dead into the wind.

Have you had any issues with the lines wearing out ? Our slip neighbor's Dutchman lines seem to last less than a year before wearing out.



-Sven
 

Mort Fligelman

Member III
Dutchman Lines

Sven:

I put a Dutchman on a Seidelmann 299 in 1987....at that time the vertical lines were a woven dacron.......

They were only used May to October on Lake Michigan.....fresh water and no salt, and low UV, and they were pretty ragged by 94 or 95, and at that time I replaced them with the new mono filament.......sold the boat in 06 and they were like brand new......Put them on my E35-3 in 07......5 winters in Florida (Took them down when I went north in the summer.....) and salt air and very high UV, and they are like brand new......two summers in Illinois and still perfect.

The only thing I can think of is that they are not vertical......Straight up and down from top to bottom.......or that the grommets in the sail are out of line and creating a lot of chafe.....

I am sold on the Dutchman, and have had -0- problems.....the only attention to detail is the aforementioned........or the possibility that the sail is being pulled down while the boat is continually well off the wind......

My .02 fwiw.......

Regards

Mort
 

Seth

Sustaining Partner
Mitre Cut sails

This is not meant to denigrate the guys at Mack Sails in any way. They are competent and clearly have integrity. I also think the Mitre Cutsails can work just fine, BUT-there is a reason they are the only ones pushing this. This is very old technology which evolved as a way to deal with sail fabrics which were only strong in one direction (old cotton fabrics). The advent of modern fabrics with multi-directional threads has eliminated the need for this type of construction. Provided the sailmaker chooses the right fabric, you will get a good crosscut, bi-radial or tri-radial sail. The tri-radial (and of course newer "string sails") are the ultimate in aligning the strongest threads in the fabric with the load paths, and all other designs are a slight step down (but adequate for most cruising applications).

My feeling is that this is a bit of a gimmick. It is certainly not as effective as a tri-radial, but can produce a decent sail if the right fabric is used.

I am not saying not to buy one, but I am saying that if this were really the answer to sailmaking, you would see the major sailmakers (who have much bigger resources for sail design and cloth development) doing it. None of them are, so just keep it in mind. That said, if you are getting good service and pricing from Mack, you should stay with them!
Happy Trails!

S
 
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Sven

Seglare
Hi Mort,

I am sold on the Dutchman, and have had -0- problems.....the only attention to detail is the aforementioned........or the possibility that the sail is being pulled down while the boat is continually well off the wind......

That's pretty much the answer I got from the Cruisers' forum when I asked there six (?) months ago. I don't know what he's doing to cause the wear but I think the breaks are always at the leech. Maybe the lines are getting too beat up when he comes back up through Hurricane Gulch (usually 20+ knots) and drops the sails after every day out.

Thanks for the reply and info.



-Sven
 

Tom Metzger

Sustaining Partner
Have you had any issues with the lines wearing out ? Our slip neighbor's Dutchman lines seem to last less than a year before wearing out.-Sven
Sven - I've had a Dutchman on my boat since 1996 when I bought it and have not had a single problem with it. I assume the down lines were original going back to 1987. I replaced the main & Dutchman about ten years ago.

Many of the boats in my marina have them and I don't remember anyone having a problem with it.

Not long after I got the boat I was talking to the Dutchman manufacturer at a boat show and asked about the down lines. He promptly offered me a spare set which I have kept, but never used.

Disclaimer - the boat has been in fresh water since I've owned it.
 
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Emerald

Moderator
Just chiming in with another report on the Dutchman. I have not had any issues with the lines after 4 seasons with this sail, and I also love the system from a functional standpoint. Something must be amiss with alignment, threading etc. to be having this chafing problem. I also had a butt saving experience with the system fall of '10 - I was on a broad reach in about 25 knots when, and I can't come up with any other explanation, I got hit with a wild gust and wind shift that jibed me, breaking EVERY :0 slide on the mainsail from the mast. The Dutchman control lines kept the main more or less under enough control that I was able to head up and get the sail down, which was key as the only crew member had only been sailing about 4 times prior to this event (and still goes sailing with me :egrin:) e.g. I was more or less solo for this adventure. Just an unexpected fringe benefit I wouldn't have anticipated.
 
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