Boat Size -- how much is enough

In an earlier thread we talked about how so few boats get really taken out and used.
http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/showthread.php?t=7746
Today I found a current thread on another large sailing site concerning sailboat sizing and use.
Referenced here: http://forums.sbo.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=124415

and, here's the direct link:
http://networkedblogs.com/avYRv

My sailing peer (pier?) group has talked about this situation on a recurring basis. No definitive answers have we found... but the problem is certainly real.

Presented for your consideration and commentary.

Loren

Hi Loren,

The article you referenced makes for interesting reading, and also reflects my own bias

I don't think there is a right or wrong answer, as each sailor/crew need to consider their needs, sailing areas, longer term plans, finances, abilities, etc. in deciding on size of boat. We bought our 1984 E30+ almost five years ago for day sailing and destination cruising in the Vancouver Island area, and it has served us well. It is an ideal size for my wife and me, and is also ok, though a bit tight, for when we have another couple on board, especially on a week long trip or more. We have managed with five on board for a week, and up to seven on board for day sails. However, at these times my wife looks at me and asks if we shouldn't consider a larger boat--a 32' or even a 35'. While tempting, I do alot of singlehanding on our E30+ and feel very comfortable in taking her out even in 20 knot winds or a bit more. I doubt I would do this in a larger boat--harder to raise or flake the mainsail and less manageable coming back to the dock, especially as we get a bit older (almost 60 years now). And a larger boat would cost more for moorage, equipment replacement and repairs.

I might respond differently if we did alot of blue water sailing, as heavier displacement might help the boat in rougher conditions and provide a more comfortable ride. Additional storage capacity would also be helplful.

But for now, we are very happy with our E30+ and have no plans to look for a larger boat.

I'll be interested in other replies.

Frank

Loren Beach said:

Presented for your consideration and commentary.

Click to expand...

I would suggest that the essay was more about older versus newer designs rather than large versus small. Most of the newer 'small' boats have the same faults as the larger boats.

Where I sail the larger boats are out as much or more than the smaller boats. This is because it is located a couple hours away from where most of us live which requires a serious commitment of time; there are almost no day sailors in the sense that everyone stays for the weekend, either on the hook or back at the marina. There are very few unoccupied boats on any summer weekend.

This is a complex topic with many, many opinions. I feel that most modern boats are very complicated and have too many systems to maintain. Moreover too many systems that owners will rely on and then not have the requisite skills when the systems fail.

This can happen no matter what size boat you started sailing in.

My feelings are a 30-32footer is ideal for 90% of the sailboaters out there. Why? Well, most of us never do much more than overnights, weekends and the occasional week or so. That 30-32ft size range handles that easily, yet is usually cheaper to own, maintain, slip costs, etc.

Now that statement was made under the assumption that the owner will do all or most of the maintenance. I suppose if you have the coin to pay for it all, what do you care? Buy what you can afford to keep.

Regarding the modern boats propensity towards dockside living, lack of "offshore" capability, etc. So what? Do you think more people are going offshore today than in the past? My guess is that there are more people going offshore than ever before, and there are manufacturers that cater to them. But most of the sailing world has realized that overnights, weekends or the occasional week cruise is all they are going to do. So why own an "offshore" capable boat if you won't ever use it? Different strokes and all that.

Ideally, if I was going offshore I would want 42ft or more. Why? Comfort plain and simple. Lets choose a specific proven offshore design. How about a Valiant? They made Valiant 32's but I think the 42ft version would be much nicer and not any harder to sail. In fact, if I had the coin I would just get the Valiant 50. Absolutely bulletproof offshore boat right out of the box. I would think the more time you spend at sea the less importance docking, paying slip fees, etc. is and things like comfort, stowage, spares, tankage, etc. start tilting the decision to larger is better. It should be noted that larger doesn't necessarily mean complicated. If you read Beth Leonards Cruising Handbook you find out that their 50ft cutter has no watermaker or refrigerator.

Just my 2cents, RT

We currently live on our boat and found 35 was not enough but 40 is perfect. We also chose this size based on eventual bluewater cruising. Lots of extra systems but I enjoy working on and maintaining them.

Now that everything is ready to go on our boat at any time I think we will sail more often.

I'm not sure what exactly was the focus of the original rant. New open boat designs? Big boats in general? The poor level of seamanship of the average sailor today? How little boats get used today? All of the above?

With modern boats I don't think the reason that they don't get used is because of size. My friends and I regularly would single hand our 38 to 42 footers. Other than raising the main it isn't any harder to sail a 38 footer than a 27 footer. Boats don't get used because their owners have too much else to do, and too much else that competes with sailing for their increasingly limited free time. And while not everyone will agree with this, I suggest that for most of us sailing alone isn't that much fun - so that if we can't find crew we will do something else. Owning a 20 footer wouldn't change that.

I will agree that the size of many of the boats I see does seem excessive for the way they are actually used. We bought a 38 footer because we intended to live aboard and cruise for a month at a time - which we did for over 10 years. The size was perfect, and I wouldn't have changed a thing. Other folks purchase boats this big because they live aboard on the weekends - their floating cabins. But if all you are going to do is day sail it is pretty silly to own such a big boat.

More interesting to me is the issue of the decline in sailing in general. There are lots of reasons but no simple solutions. Part of what makes sailing attracting to me - the mastery of new skills - is exactly what makes it a hard sell in an age when people would rather just purchase a jet ski.

There was an interesting article the other day here in Minnesota about cabin ownership with some parallels to sailing. In the upper midwest (Michigan, Wisconsin, Minnesota) owning a cabin "up north" is almost a birth right. Everyone from bus drivers to teachers to college professors owns one, and interestingly no one ever questions the cost or comments about it the way someone will - upon learning you own a sailboat - say something like "it must be nice to own a yacht". But cabin ownership is not cheap, and increasingly folks are finding that they can't afford that family cabin. More importantly, the newer generations don't seem to value the outdoor cabin experience as much as their parents and grandparents did. People are not giving their cabins away yet, but the author suggested that in the future cabins may not be in anything like the same demand that they have been in the past. Kind of reminds you of sailing......

Kind of reminds you of sailing......

Maybe; maybe not.

I don't think sailing is going away anytime soon. The types of craft people will be sailing in - oh - 2052 - might be different than many today; maybe hi-tech cats that go faster than today's fuel guzzling Ta Shing flybridge. But the allure of moving through water without benefit of fossil fuels is a big draw.

Speaking of which, we may be enjoying a temporary respite from petroleum costs, but I wouldn't get used to it. We're all just one embargo away from $6 bucks a gallon. Could happen next week, next month. Maybe in two years just before the next big election.

Anyway, I think people will always take to the water in wind or self powered craft. They'll row 10 foot dinghies, 22 foot sloops, and attempt helming a 52 foot ketch - whether they need it or not. And even the diehards - the stinkpotters who swore they'd never be caught sober on a sailboat -occasionally get hooked. Like the contractor who's coming over next week to demo a wall in our house. Last month, he went sailing for the first time in his 60 years.

"Wow! When the engine stopped and the sails took over..it was...uh...magic."

Also, I have to take issue with a statement in the blog - regarding the woman who passed her USCG License exam. The implication that merely having more relative, single-handed sea time on a 27 foot boat is the reason she had an advantage, and others with 'bigger boat' experience didn't, is highly questionable. The reason people pass or fail USCG tests has everything to do with study and understanding the material, and often - not that much - with the size of vessel sea time is acquired on.

My two cents.



Capt Dan G>E35II "Kunu"